When Greenwich was not the zero meridian. - Ships Nostalgia
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When Greenwich was not the zero meridian.

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  #1  
Old 26th March 2014, 22:08
FILIPVS FILIPVS is offline  
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When Greenwich was not the zero meridian.

Ptolemy was the first one who placed the zero meridian in Punta Orchilla in Canary Islands (El Hierro). That was considered then the "end of the knowed world".

Later, after 1492 each country had its own zero meridian... Spain, Portugal and France had different zero meridians.

It was in 1634 when Cardinal Richelieu met in Paris to mathematicians, astronomers and other men of learning from different countries, to establish a zero meridian to serve as a reference for all countries. The decision of Ptolemy and El Hierro (Spain) remained as the benchmark. Things remained in this way, until the late nineteenth century benchmark was displaced to Greenwich.

But even today, Canary Islands are knowed for seafarers around the world as the Meridian islands...

Last edited by FILIPVS; 26th March 2014 at 22:43..
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  #2  
Old 26th March 2014, 22:39
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Never heard that 'Meridian Islands ' thing before so it wasn't knowed by this seafarer... and the link doesn't say the Canaries are called that anywaze.....

Be thankful they settled on Greenwich and not Paris.... you would have been forever dealing with PMT...
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Old 26th March 2014, 22:59
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According to Wikipedia not all of the Canary islands are named the Meridian Islands, only one of them have the name........

Quote "El Hierro, nicknamed Isla del Meridiano, is the smallest and farthest south and west of the Canary Islands, in the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Africa, with a population of 10,162. " Quote.....Wikipedia
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Old 26th March 2014, 23:01
FILIPVS FILIPVS is offline  
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Quote:
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Never heard that 'Meridian Islands ' thing before so it wasn't knowed by this seafarer...
It is normal. I think these things are not usually explained in british schools.
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Old 26th March 2014, 23:08
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Originally Posted by FILIPVS View Post
It is normal. I think these things are not usually explained in british schools.
Why would they?
It is not as though the British have ever laid claim to those particular rocks, other than as a holiday destination.
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Old 26th March 2014, 23:12
FILIPVS FILIPVS is offline  
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A map from XVIII century shows zero meridian passing through Canary islands

"Afrique publiée sous les auspices de Monseigneur le Duc d'Orleans" (1749)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Islas meridiano.jpg (246.1 KB, 25 views)
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  #7  
Old 26th March 2014, 23:29
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Quote:
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Be thankful they settled on Greenwich and not Paris.... you would have been forever dealing with PMT...
Fear ye not, the oilfield block maps for West Africa use the Paris Meridian, even though published in USA.

Ian
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  #8  
Old 26th March 2014, 23:30
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is online now  
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#1

Dear Filipus,

Is this latest academic jewel addressed to your fellow contributors to SN or is it addressed to the common mass of people who never read a book? Or do you consider those two groups of people to be one and the same?

Please would you clarify?
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Old 27th March 2014, 00:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FILIPVS View Post
A map from XVIII century shows zero meridian passing through Canary islands

"Afrique publiée sous les auspices de Monseigneur le Duc d'Orleans" (1749)
Back in those days everyone used whatever prime meridian suited them, normally their point of departure which is most likely where 'departure' in the traverse tables comes from.
When the Yahgan people used to sail down to antarctica they used the Islas Diego Ramirez as their prime meridian except back then they called them the Buger off back home Diego! Islands
I bet they didn't teach you that at school.
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  #10  
Old 27th March 2014, 08:41
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is online now  
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#8

The point of my query, Filipus, is that most people who speak the English language (including those who do not speak it quite as well as you do) understand that the Prime Meridian was fixed at Greenwich by international agreement.

There is of course some political interest in the history of that agreement (including particularly the roles played by both Spain and UK), but you may be sure that most readers of SN have a fairly clear understanding of that history.

Amongst other English names attributed to the Canary Isles is "the Fortunate Isles", as a reference to the pleasant climate.
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Old 27th March 2014, 11:20
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The 0 degree meridian is only a line on a map, Felipe, as I'm sure you know. It's not gouged into the planet, although there is a brass strip marking the Greenwich Meridian at Cleethorpes, Lincolnshire. The Meridian could be placed anywhere, but Greenwich was chosen because Britannia Rules the Waves (or did once) and we invented chronometers when the Spanish were still scratching lines on candles. You are just going to have to deal with that, FilipVs. Así es la vida.

John T
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  #12  
Old 27th March 2014, 11:32
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Of course it is in Spain
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Old 27th March 2014, 12:47
trotterdotpom trotterdotpom is offline  
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Yes, but they don't call it the Benedorm Meridian. Wonder if they have a brass strip at zero degrees in Castellon de la Plana?

John T
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  #14  
Old 27th March 2014, 12:56
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is online now  
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Many of us will remember Meridian underwear!
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  #15  
Old 27th March 2014, 12:58
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Yes, it in Spain.... it runs North/South through, but it is known as the Gibraltar Meridian.... sorry I mean Greenwich Meridian.
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  #16  
Old 27th March 2014, 13:01
trotterdotpom trotterdotpom is offline  
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You can still get it, Barrie. google "Fogey Unlimited".

John T

PS Meridian Undies that is.

Last edited by trotterdotpom; 27th March 2014 at 13:02.. Reason: Add ps
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  #17  
Old 27th March 2014, 13:03
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Just in case we forget the British Crown posession of Gibraltar....

Thanks Wikipedia....


Gibraltar became part of the Visigothic Kingdom of Hispania following the collapse of the Roman Empire and came under Muslim Moorish rule in 711 AD. It was permanently settled for the first time by the Moors and was renamed Jebel Tariq – the Mount of Tariq, later corrupted into Gibraltar. The Christian Kingdom of Castile annexed it in 1309, lost it again to the Moors in 1333 and finally regained it in 1462. Gibraltar became part of the unified Kingdom of Spain and remained under Spanish rule until 1704. It was captured during the War of the Spanish Succession by an Anglo-Dutch fleet in the name of Charles VI of Austria, the Habsburg pretender to the Spanish throne. At the war's end, Spain ceded the territory to Britain under the terms of the Treaty of Utrecht of 1713.

Spain tried to regain control of Gibraltar, which Britain had declared a Crown colony, through military, diplomatic and economic pressure. Gibraltar was besieged and heavily bombarded during three wars between Britain and Spain but the attacks were repulsed on each occasion. By the end of the last siege, in the late 18th century, Gibraltar had faced fourteen sieges in 500 years. In the years after Trafalgar, Gibraltar became a major base in the Peninsular War. The colony grew rapidly during the 19th and early 20th centuries, becoming one of Britain's most important possessions in the Mediterranean. It was a key stopping point for vessels en route to India via the Suez Canal. A large British naval base was constructed there at great expense at the end of the 19th century and became the backbone of Gibraltar's economy.

British control of Gibraltar enabled the Allies to control the entrance to the Mediterranean during the Second World War. It was attacked on several occasions by German, Italian and Vichy French forces, though without causing much damage. The Spanish dictator General Francisco Franco declined to join a Nazi plan to occupy Gibraltar but revived Spain's claim to the territory after the war. As the territorial dispute intensified, Spain closed its border with Gibraltar between 1969 and 1985 and communications links were severed. Spain's position was supported by Latin American countries but was rejected by Britain and the Gibraltarians themselves, who vigorously asserted their right to self-determination. Discussions of Gibraltar's status have continued between Britain and Spain but have not reached any conclusion.

Since 1985, Gibraltar has undergone major changes as a result of reductions in Britain's overseas defence commitments. Most British forces have left the territory, which is no longer seen as a place of major military importance. Its economy is now based on tourism, financial services, shipping and Internet gambling. Gibraltar is largely self-governed, with its own parliament and government, though the UK maintains responsibility for defence and foreign policy. Its economic success has made it one of the wealthiest areas of the European Union.
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Old 27th March 2014, 14:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie Youde View Post
#8

The point of my query, Filipus, is that most people who speak the English language (including those who do not speak it quite as well as you do) understand that the Prime Meridian was fixed at Greenwich by international agreement.

There is of course some political interest in the history of that agreement (including particularly the roles played by both Spain and UK), but you may be sure that most readers of SN have a fairly clear understanding of that history.
Well, I am sure that most readers of SN have a fairly clear understanding of this and many other histories. But, people also buy and read Dan Brown's books... or even worst, people read to Ken Follet!!!

With all this rubbish in the book-shelfs around the world , people can easy misunderstand the History.
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Old 27th March 2014, 15:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FILIPVS View Post
Well, I am sure that most readers of SN have a fairly clear understanding of this and many other histories. But, people also buy and read Dan Brown's books... or even worst, people read to Ken Follet!!!

With all this rubbish in the book-shelfs around the world , people can easy misunderstand the History.



Obviously you do not simply understand a work of fiction or no-fiction. It is quite easy to know what is which. Look on the back of the dustjacket... it clearly says 'Fiction'. Of course if you ever go inside a library books you can clearly which category is sitting on teh shelf.

As far as Ken Follet goes, a good author and his books are for reading for enjoyable. Or again.... have another copy of H&E. Definitely not non-fiction.

Think for a single moment that anything in a work of history is 'true'. There are plenty of historical works that as rubbish... in English, American, Polish, Greek or anyone else... even in Spanish.
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Old 27th March 2014, 16:11
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is online now  
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#18

Speak for yourself, old chum.

Most mariners can see straight through the likes of Dan Brown and other writers of fiction.
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  #21  
Old 27th March 2014, 16:47
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Barrie,

Yes. I must get out my collection on Kent (Reeman), Forester, Monseratt etc etc.

Merch more of gin, fanny and tailor mades... none of that navy stuff like... rum, bum and baccy! Enough to make a signal... 'England Expects'!
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  #22  
Old 27th March 2014, 17:42
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is online now  
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#21

Quite so! There is much excellent Merchant Navy fiction discussed elsewhere in SN.

Quite how Dan Brown enters such a discussion is beyond me!

V best,

B
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  #23  
Old 27th March 2014, 17:48
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Barrie,

Just memory... book sits on my book... PILOT ABOARD... John Radford. It is dog-eared... must be 45 years ago that I first read it. Excellent!

Stephen
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  #24  
Old 27th March 2014, 18:48
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is online now  
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Many thanks, Stephen.

I agree. I read it many years ago, too.

But for really taking the lid off pilotage and all the shenanikins and internal politics of any Pilot Service there remains nothing, to the present day, which can hold a candle to Mark Twain and Life On the Mississippi.

Best wishes,

BY
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  #25  
Old 27th March 2014, 19:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FILIPVS View Post
It is normal. I think these things are not usually explained in british schools.
Sorry but I wasn't educated in british schools.... flags obviously aren't your strong point are they....

I would Wager that the Spanish education system ignores the reason for the naming of the Islands in the Kent Group.

Anywazes... speaking of Wager my evening read just now is 'The Prize of All the Oceans' .... a bonzer yarn.
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