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R/O to ETO

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  #51  
Old 25th July 2020, 10:51
sparkie2182 sparkie2182 is online now  
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"whole point of SPs is to reply to a ship in distress at the time"

Obviously.

An unbelievable situation.
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  #52  
Old 25th July 2020, 14:01
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Varley Varley is offline   SN Supporter
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I am sorry you did not get any fun out of the job, Po8. You seem to think that I had not done it myself, sometimes on ships a lot more complicated than the NKK built bulk carriers.

When I did jump ship to E/O (Mimco seemed to have no prospects of me being able to continue as ECO) I would cast the odd glance towards the radio room in wonder that anyone could have engineered such demarcation. Good reasons were there none. Why you think ohms law is applied differently just because it is followed in the radio room and not universally I cannot imagine.

I also cannot imagine why engineering supers and chiefs engineer should prefer an uneducated tradesman (which very many of even our best E/Os were) at their beck and call than someone with at least the basics of an electrical education. (Actually I can. The former were generally used to hard work whereas the those forced by the job market rather than by instinct were often more used to sitting on their arses for 12 hours a day, 8 with headphones on and 4 on a bar stool).

It is true that as ECO I did earn more than ETO (and often had a Junior instead of a taperecorder) and that is how we started off when I got into the driving seat (well as much of a perch as I was allowed) Between 2nd and 3rd remains where I think the scale should lie but it soon became untenable in a Brit setting. If we could not make the financial equation fit a Brit solution then we got third worlder with even less education (very true then, I have no idea how that has improved). It was, indeed my lobby that reduced R/Os wage to that of 4th, what on earth possessed any of us to think that 8 hours arsesitting was worth more (sorry 8 hours ALRS correcting). The intention, however, was not to punish or degrade but to encourage those who would do more to do more. In doing so make it back up to 3rd and to keep a Brit (for a bit longer anyway). There were disappointingly few who wanted to. Frank McNeilage managed to screw that up in my opinion with a deal with the Unions to march the pay back up to 3rd with seniority awards

I truly am sorry that your great (good? mediocre?) time at sea stopped when you started being productive. That's when my great time started (and I still managed a good bit of barstool arsesitting as well).

It would be extremely disappointed if any of the 'babies' that I took directly from College (before they could get used to the arsesitting habit) had the same view of their careers as you did (I still hear from some of them from time to time, not from the one lady, an excellent technician who we, and I would not like to be part of that we, treated very badly).

You cannot be blamed, attracted to sea with the prospect of good pay and good leave for doing little unless you, your ship or another nearby were very unlucky, it is not surprising that having to put in a days useful work was unwelcome.

The 'Equivalence' was not especially ours (it was the North West European Navtex Exemption). Perhaps applied in a more geographically liberal fashion by Flag than its authors had intended.

You seem to have been able (another problem with those recruited from existing R/O stock) which makes it even sadder that you did not enjoy it. Dogsbody? I always felt that I had taken a step up in the status stakes but then I have always been big-headed.

It might be fun to hear from another on the subject. Both of us are clearly biased. I intended nothing altruistic either. I was not trying to shoe-in Brits for the sake of Brits but for the sake of me having a knowing body onboard to ensure I did not have to work, or if I did, then I had someone who spoke-a-da-electric with which to communicate onboard (and for your part in that, I thank you).

(Just please, please don't tell me how hard you worked when covering only the R/O's job on a cargo ship - remember I have been there, done that and wrung the beer out of the T-Shirt).

Last edited by Varley; 25th July 2020 at 14:06..
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  #53  
Old 25th July 2020, 14:14
Piecesofeight Piecesofeight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varley View Post
I am sorry you did not get any fun out of the job, Po8. You seem to think that I had not done it myself, sometimes on ships a lot more complicated than the NKK built bulk carriers.

You are making assumptions, I said nothing of the kind, I know very little of your background I saw you mention the Alcan ships that's all.

When I did jump ship to E/O (Mimco seemed to have no prospects of me being able to continue as ECO) I would cast the odd glance towards the radio room in wonder that anyone could have engineered such demarcation. Good reasons were there none. Why you think ohms law is applied differently just because it is followed in the radio room and not universally I cannot imagine.

Again ridiculous assumption, why did you even write the last sentence? My knowledge of ohms law was quite adequte for the job thank you.


I also cannot imagine why engineering supers and chiefs engineer should prefer an uneducated tradesman (which very many of even our best E/Os were) at their beck and call than someone with at least the basics of an electrical education. (Actually I can. The former were generally used to hard work whereas the those forced by the job market rather than by instinct were often more used to sitting on their arses for 12 hours a day, 8 with headphones on and 4 on a bar stool).

I don't know what you're talking about I spent three years at technical college including radar ticket the MRGC was a comprehensive electronic education as you must surely know.

It is true that as ECO I did earn more than ETO (and often had a Junior instead of a taperecorder) and that is how we started off when I got into the driving seat (well as much of a perch as I was allowed) Between 2nd and 3rd remains where I think the scale should lie but it soon became untenable in a Brit setting. If we could not make the financial equation fit a Brit solution then we got third worlder with even less education (very true then, I have no idea how that has improved). It was, indeed my lobby that reduced R/Os wage to that of 4th, what on earth possessed any of us to think that 8 hours arsesitting was worth more (sorry 8 hours ALRS correcting). The intention, however, was not to punish or degrade but to encourage those who would do more to do more. In doing so make it back up to 3rd and to keep a Brit (for a bit longer anyway). There were disappointingly few who wanted to. Frank McNeilage managed to screw that up in my opinion with a deal with the Unions to march the pay back up to 3rd with seniority awards

I truly am sorry that your great (good? mediocre?) time at sea stopped when you started being productive. That's when my great time started (and I still managed a good bit of barstool arsesitting as well).

The size of the chip on your shoulder about the R/O's job is astonishing esp in view of the fact that you claim to have done the job yourself. Greatly, good or only mediocre? You assumptions are rude and uncalled for.

It would be extremely disappointed if any of the 'babies' that I took directly from College (before they could get used to the arsesitting habit) had the same view of their careers as you did (I still hear from some of them from time to time, not from the one lady, an excellent technician who we, and I would not like to be part of that we, treated very badly).

You cannot be blamed, attracted to sea with the prospect of good pay and good leave for doing little unless you, your ship or another nearby were very unlucky, it is not surprising that having to put in a days useful work was unwelcome.

You do not know how well I did my job as R/O and to criticise me in that ignorance is unforgivable, you are rude and ill mannered.


The 'Equivalence' was not especially ours (it was the North West European Navtex Exemption). Perhaps applied in a more geographically liberal fashion by Flag than its authors had intended.

You seem to have been able (another problem with those recruited from existing R/O stock) which makes it even sadder that you did not enjoy it. Dogsbody? I always felt that I had taken a step up in the status stakes but then I have always been big-headed.

You said it!!!

It might be fun to hear from another on the subject. Both of us are clearly biased. I intended nothing altruistic either. I was not trying to shoe-in Brits for the sake of Brits but for the sake of me having a knowing body onboard to ensure I did not have to work, or if I did, then I had someone who spoke-a-da-electric with which to communicate onboard (and for your part in that, I thank you).


I'm not biased I wrote what I experienced. 25% of my work was caused by the ignorant crew spraying high pressure seawater everywhere and dismantling deck equipment to paint it.


(Just please, please don't tell me how hard you worked when covering only the R/O's job on a cargo ship - remember I have been there, done that and wrung the beer out of the T-Shirt).
Perhaps nobody else will tell you this but you don't come over very well on the Forum but I don't expect you're going to change on my account.
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  #54  
Old 25th July 2020, 15:29
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Varley Varley is offline   SN Supporter
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No I am not going to change on your account but perhaps you might sample a little of you own medicine. To wit:

You clearly thought you were overworked. I pointed out that I had done the same job and on more complicated ships and did not find it so. Why? I wonder why - perhaps we never washed down or carried out maintenance on deck.

I did not impugn your knowledge of Ohms law I simply pointed out that it should be used less exclusively.

When referring to education I was pointing to the usual recruitment of E/Os (those from the Mines and Gas boards excepted) and that the R/Os' was better but that it was pity it was not more appreciated. You can learn telegraphy as a trade you cannot learn technicianing without school.

I suggested you might have had a great time at sea before you took to ETO. Where I put "?" meant that I recognised that might not be the case. To be miserable both as R/O and ETO would be a dire life indeed.

I did not say you didn't do R/O well. What I did state was that that would not take hard work on a cargo vessel. I was also careful not to say you spent time in the bar but that I did. You cannot deny that the generalisation applied to many of our ilk.

I am in no way ashamed of starting off as R/O or do I claim that I did not have a good time when I was, it is just that I am much prouder and more satisfied by progressing in the way that I did and hopefully in providing some stepping stones for others of like mind. Why have a ladder if you only intend to stay at the first level.

Your chip read some things that were not written. I should change it if I were you lest it turn you rude and tautological.

If you continue to consider me ill mannered the control panel has a perfectly good solution as is a note to the mods, of course.
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  #55  
Old 25th July 2020, 21:59
rogd rogd is offline
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Thank the Lord I was a lowly Leckie!!
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  #56  
Old 25th July 2020, 23:25
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Varley Varley is offline   SN Supporter
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Don't do yourself down. I never did.
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  #57  
Old 26th July 2020, 03:57
holland25 holland25 is online now  
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After reading all the above I am glad I was lucky to avoid it all. When I left the sea I eventually managed to get involved in data communications. The internet was in the future and most of the big companies had their own private networks. My first involvement was with British Airways and Boadicea, the on line booking system.I was never very good at component level fault finding but I was quite successful at fault finding on diverse communication networks.Modems and leased lines were a big deal at the time. I progressed from BA to Philips and eventually landed a job in Melbourne looking after the operation and planning of the network of a national computer bureau.Eventually the internet arrived and things changed. I spent my final years project managing a few communications based products for Ericsson. Reading about going into the engineroom and getting dirty made me realise how lucky I had been.
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  #58  
Old 26th July 2020, 05:55
Piecesofeight Piecesofeight is offline
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I do not understand your evident dislike of the role of R/O. If you have done the job as you claim (got the t-shirt and so on) and know what it involved then what's not to like? I have never met or communicated with an R/O who didn't like the job and wasn't sorry it ended – except you. All the reasons you give for not respecting the job, are, if true, reasons to like it. It was a mainly administrative role with maintenance and repair responsibilities, as you know. If you so hated the role you should perhaps have gone to sea as an engineer, it sounds as though that suited you better.

You haven't made it clear where you were in the career ladder. Did you work directly for DSM as a manager? As a C/E? As superintendent? We may have met who knows although your name doesn't ring any bells. Why are you so scathing about the career choice of thousands not to say tens of thousands of other people who had an ambition to go to sea and trained for and attained the role of R/O and enjoyed it? What's wrong with that? It's the self loathing that gets me, you come across as somebody who hates the job they went to sea for, I've never read anything like it.

My main gripe about the Alcan ETO responsibilities was the Broadgate tape recorder which you have yet to address. If Denholm had obtained an exemption by 1992 under the GMDSS rules not to carry an R/O owing to duplicated equipment and a GMDSS console then why did they install the SP tape recorder at all? If they did not have such an exemption why did they not carry an R/O and electrician? To my eyes they appeared to be trying to have it both ways to the detriment of the ETO. I just felt guilty all the time at not being there to hear ships in distress but I couldn't be in the radio room because I was so obviously needed elsewhere all over the ship, all day long.

There were bits of the Alcan trip I enjoyed. The Amazon end of it was quite pleasant and meant the deck jobs could be saved for the good weather when the e/r was 46 degrees and above and the deck was cooler.

I'll tell what I hated most about the role of ETO with Alcan. It was the inability to get on top of the job owing to the constant fire-fighting. When I used to join ships as R/O often with a backlog of corrections and maintenance issues it was possible to spend the first couple of months dealing with all that and jobs arising in the meantime to reach a position where I could draw up a PM chart, stick it on the wall, and go through a rota of managable checks and procedures with the confidence that everything was working.

On the NV in five months I never ever reached that stage because almost every planned job was interrupted by one of four people, three of whom were more senior than me, whose demands could not be ignored without losing my job, and the last of whom, the cook, so obviously needed his failed hotplate that I couldn't ignore that either.

This meant that every single day started out with good intentions disrupted and wrecked to some extent by the demands of senior management. I overcame the worst of this in the first week when I got the 2/E off my back by complaining directly to the C/E and arranging a series of fortnightly meetings with him when we could compile a list of jobs to be done which I could prioritise. This meant at the very least I had some control over my work list instead of being at the beck and call of the 2/E who fortunately backed off.

Nevertheless compared to being a head of department of one as was the R/O's job, it was a crock of **** and was glad to leave. It paid for a long holiday in New Zealand and that was the only good thing about it.

. - . - .

Last edited by Piecesofeight; 26th July 2020 at 17:30..
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  #59  
Old 26th July 2020, 08:06
trotterdotpom trotterdotpom is offline  
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LOF brought in a great training for ROs and Electricians to become Electronics Officers. For ROs it included a year at South Shields college and a year sailing as 2nd Electrician. I put in for it but they'd cancelled it because some of the people who did it got the qualifications and skinned out!

In Australia, they got rid of Electricians before they dumped the RO. The companies decided that all the electrical bizzo was covered by the engineers' training. I bet that was good for shore side leckies!

The reason ROs were on ships was for the safety of their own and other ships - back in the day, that's all there was. Everything else was a fringe benefit. Dunno how Denholm's got away with such a pointless thing as recording silence periods!

I wanted to go to sea and looked into the options. I chose the RO position and I'm glad I did. I think I'll write a book called "Round the World with Clean Fingernails".

John T
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  #60  
Old 26th July 2020, 08:13
sparkie2182 sparkie2182 is online now  
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"The companies decided that all the electrical bizzo was covered by the engineers' training.

Lots of blue flashes.
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  #61  
Old 26th July 2020, 08:59
Piecesofeight Piecesofeight is offline
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Training was the killer. R/O training did not include HV which I think was because the colleges didn't want the casualties(!) or to pay the insurance. Certainly that applied to radar training where we only ever learned to f/f on the displays and then only on the signal boards not the HT circuits.

Some companies had the ETO thing better organised. P&O Princess ships had two categories of ETO, Comms and Engine, with a nod to their history. ETO Eng did lifts and engine room electrics, ETO Comms did exchanges, comms, navigation, TV, theatres and so on.

I never met a C/E who like Sparkies, they all thought it was a free ride, but in spite of that occasionally myself and others no doubt were asked to help out with some electronic problem in the e/r and did so willingly because there was payback in the form of getting things threaded, cut, welded whatever elsewhere on the ship.

As I said earlier good to have been an R/O at all. Much missed.
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Old 26th July 2020, 11:49
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Varley Varley is offline   SN Supporter
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Do please change the chip. It continues to read more than is written. Perhaps I need to send more slowly.

I repeat, I ampliate, I say again, I did not dislike being an R/O and had fun doing it. It was not, however the hard work that you are making it out to be. At least not in conventional trading vessels. I was not overly skilled on the key (my pride was in keeping the kit on the top line and requiring no help to do so, unless it was up high. Don't like heights) and would have hated to be a grunt on a high traffic vessel. That I had far more fun when I had grown out of the berth does not mean that I had none when occupying it.

My time as R/O and ECO was with Marconi although Denholm managed ships figured early on and at the end of that time. E/O was with Denholm. Electrical Super started with Denholm, moved to consultant (my punishment for returning home to camp out in the IoM office, to 'be around' for the aged parents). I withered on the, by then, Anglo-Eastern vine in the early noughties and I was very grateful to be picked up by Dorchester Maritime/Bernhard Schulte. WRT to Northern Progress and Northern Venture I was the electrical input to the specification and drawing approval.

That you had not heard my name, I suggest, a good thing both from the build of the vessel and the ETO manning. I visited them a couple of times in Port Alfred and again in dock at H&W. As part of my punishment for leaving Glasgow was administering the computer planned maintenance. I still have at my feet the magnetic board with the schedule of diskette returns. (That really is a less happy story and might interest an IT man).

The tape recorders were part of the Navtex Exemption and not our idea. Applying the exemption, of course, was. I regret I cannot now find the terms of the 'equivalence', certainly a hint of GMDSS to come but then no part of it - other administrations allowed a downgrade of W/T status to R/T and one vessel we got into management had been built to that (can't remember the flag but devilishly difficult to establish equivalence when changing to Mardep Singapore). I know it is sparkie sacrilege but I am not sure that silence periods themselves were not of doubtful significance in 'our time'. Consider that an H8 vessel did not manually watch for 16 hours a day and that only 48 minutes of that that was watched was silenced. A more truly continuous solution had been started under the 1920 Rules where the duty, later of the yet to be developed W/T autoalarm, was carried out by a certificated 'Watcher'. M Notice 17 refers. There was still no real attempt to be inclusive of all tonnage until the R/T watch receiver was introduced by when GMDSS was already in sight.

I am sorry to other readers of the thread for blowing again on my own trumpet and to do so on the same thread too.

(And I do not consider a scheme of two equal streams, ETO Plumbing and ETO Fairy Lights as anything more than empire building. You mentioned one company where I heard it's 'electronic' superintendents at the GCBS genuinely forecasting that they were establishing an empire where the ETO would get an equal shot at being chief engineer (as in without class 1 certification, only slightly less unbelievable now, when autonomy is being promoted, than then). If the work load does justify more manpower then it is obvious to me that it should be one based on seniority with the same discipline. Admittedly the one ship I did with two both were equivalent in seniority and some political juggling was prescribed to make that comfortable for all.

One thing and only one thing irks me about starting as R/O. After 33 years of not touching a key in anger (Alvand an exception when the rather surprised Filipino R/O was dispatched in the lifeboat to test the LB transceiver with me in the RR) I ended up with any and every question about radio accounting. From the moment I came ashore in 1981 to the day I was made redundant in 2011 it was a case of "Oh, it's radios, he used to do that, give it to him".

...-.-

Last edited by Varley; 26th July 2020 at 11:53..
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  #63  
Old 26th July 2020, 16:38
John Gowers John Gowers is offline
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What rankles still is that when Eurofreighter went to be re-engine, on the recommendations of the Chief and Old Man I applied for and got an E/O's position. Zero seniority. Nick Dunbar (one of the few others successfully then to "cross the plates") was approached by Denholm to do the same. The bugger was offered a year's seniority.


Hi Varley,
Just came across this thread The mention of Nick Dunbar brought back memories of the Euroliner around 1974/75 where I sailed with Nick Dunbar on a couple of trips. I remember him moaning because he had first trip junior RO in the radio room and he had to go and finish off sending off some long message as the junior got cramp in his hand sending them.
John
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  #64  
Old 26th July 2020, 17:27
Piecesofeight Piecesofeight is offline
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We're nearly on the same page, well done.

Quote:
I repeat, I ampliate, I say again, I did not dislike being an R/O and had fun doing it. It was not, however the hard work that you are making it out to be.
I never said being an R/O was hard work, I have more or less agreed with you in other posts.

Quote:
I was not overly skilled on the key (my pride was in keeping the kit on the top line and requiring no help to do so, unless it was up high. Don't like heights) and would have hated to be a grunt on a high traffic vessel.
Ditto on the morse, ditto on maintenance and repairs of kit, we have more in common than you imagine. However I didn't mind heights except when the wind was from aft and blowing flue gas into my face which wasn't fun when trying to fix the radar scanner.

Quote:
That I had far more fun when I had grown out of the berth does not mean that I had none when occupying it.
There was nothing to grow out of, it was a job for life or at least until it ended with GMDSS.

Quote:
My time as R/O and ECO was with Marconi although Denholm managed ships figured early on and at the end of that time. E/O was with Denholm. Electrical Super started with Denholm, moved to consultant (my punishment for returning home to camp out in the IoM office, to 'be around' for the aged parents). I withered on the, by then, Anglo-Eastern vine in the early noughties and I was very grateful to be picked up by Dorchester Maritime/Bernhard Schulte. WRT to Northern Progress and Northern Venture I was the electrical input to the specification and drawing approval.
At last some history, thank you, and some relevance to Alcan.

Quote:
That you had not heard my name, I suggest, a good thing both from the build of the vessel and the ETO manning. I visited them a couple of times in Port Alfred and again in dock at H&W. As part of my punishment for leaving Glasgow was administering the computer planned maintenance. I still have at my feet the magnetic board with the schedule of diskette returns. (That really is a less happy story and might interest an IT man).
Well I'm an IT man these days so bore me some time.

Quote:
The tape recorders were part of the Navtex Exemption and not our idea. Applying the exemption, of course, was. I regret I cannot now find the terms of the 'equivalence', certainly a hint of GMDSS to come but then no part of it - other administrations allowed a downgrade of W/T status to R/T and one vessel we got into management had been built to that (can't remember the flag but devilishly difficult to establish equivalence when changing to Mardep Singapore). I know it is sparkie sacrilege but I am not sure that silence periods themselves were not of doubtful significance in 'our time'. Consider that an H8 vessel did not manually watch for 16 hours a day and that only 48 minutes of that that was watched was silenced. A more truly continuous solution had been started under the 1920 Rules where the duty, later of the yet to be developed W/T autoalarm, was carried out by a certificated 'Watcher'. M Notice 17 refers. There was still no real attempt to be inclusive of all tonnage until the R/T watch receiver was introduced by when GMDSS was already in sight.
SPs needed to be monitored at the time or they were meaningless.

After 28 years I've had an answer to my question as to why the tape recorder was there, thank you for that.

.-.-.

Last edited by Piecesofeight; 26th July 2020 at 18:16..
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  #65  
Old 26th July 2020, 18:01
sparkie2182 sparkie2182 is online now  
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"when trying to fix the radar scanner."

Water in the waveguide.

Every time.
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  #66  
Old 26th July 2020, 18:07
Piecesofeight Piecesofeight is offline
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Quote:
Water in the waveguide.
I dare say that happens but fortunately I was spared that particular evil.

My reasons for being up there were more to do with checking gearbox oil levels and the condition of the V belt, and in the early days washing the soot off the scanner face.

Raytheon radars were a joy having a transparent plastic sight tube for the oil level at the front of the equipment casing which went hard and opaque over time with age then split dripping oil on the platform and down the access ladder. On two different ships I had the dubious pleasure of having to replace the hardened plastic "sight glass" with a new tube and refill the gearbox, hence the flue gas story.

I did however have to replace the main bearings on the S band scanner on the Bibi (William Reardon Smith / TMM) in 1991, we did that at sea off Florida and is a story in itself for another time. RIP Captain Bob Baker and Chief Steward Dave Hartshorne, both lovely blokes, much missed.

Last edited by Piecesofeight; 26th July 2020 at 18:17..
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  #67  
Old 26th July 2020, 18:29
P.Arnold P.Arnold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkie2182 View Post
"when trying to fix the radar scanner."

Water in the waveguide.

Every time.
And grease in the rotating joint as a result of over enthusiastic R/Os
Pumping in the grease, following the planned maintenance manual, but waiting for the squiggly grease worm to come out of the grease nipple, just like you did on the ball joints of a Morris 1000. (Other vehicles as well, no doubt)
Goodness I have left myself open for abuse, particularly the squiggly from the nipple.
Ah well such is life
Peter
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  #68  
Old 26th July 2020, 18:44
david freeman david freeman is offline  
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key tappers, and shunter club under the Red Ensign

I am dis appointed how you old 60's hands as key tappers look at Your selves. As a bugining Engineer cadet and college time [some] spent at South Shields, and in digs in Julian Avenue, with fellow cadets and trainee radio operators, we were all of late teenage years, and good pals in the digs.
What I believe you may feel disappointed with is the hierichy and technical skills need to run the whole ship? and who had the brains to be the boss, i.e. master.
The regulation are written in stone, and all though the galley boy can/could become captain, the rest of us had to change career, and do time before the mast, starting off as a cabin boy?? or there abouts.{deck watchkeeper?}
As engineers one could achieve the role of C/E, but not the lecky, unless he did 13 years on a watch as an enginner {quoting regs 1894.}
The 1970 regs for MS did not change much in these conditions.
I have noted in my career since 1960 in the engine room, the importance of electronics/computer and to some extent electric ac motor design are challenging to the engineer officer and the radio, and E/O make up some of the essential knowledge in the controls and running of the ship steam/diesel/gas turbine, and the top post both in the eng dept and deck depart, needs men ladies of wide knowledge and the abilty to lead.
The MCA 'auntie' has some homework to do, to utalise the minimum crew numbers to their best effect in running a modern ship?
Answers on a post card please. Any of you deckies have the eyesight {Colour visio] to become effiecent professional in any challenging post on a modern vessel, all though you may have started out as a deck boy
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  #69  
Old 27th July 2020, 06:58
trotterdotpom trotterdotpom is offline  
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#61 . "Training was the killer. R/O training did not include HV which I think was because the colleges didn't want the casualties(!) or to pay the insurance. Certainly that applied to radar training where we only ever learned to f/f on the displays and then only on the signal boards not the HT circuits."

When I did my Radar course (Hull) we covered the whole box and dice including HT. I always found it "amusing" when you were sitting on the deck surrounded by bits of radar and the Old Man would pop his head round the corner and say: "Have you checked the fuses?"

These days, my wife thinks I don't know how to change a light bulb and that's OK with me.

I got on OK with most Chief Engineers but I agree, there were a few d*ckheads. Generally, I admired their knowledge. One who "liked the cut of my gib" was a bit of a concern!

Don't worry about David, he's a "Quisling."

John T
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Old 27th July 2020, 07:48
Piecesofeight Piecesofeight is offline
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When I did my Radar course (Hull) we covered the whole box and dice including HT. I always found it "amusing" when you were sitting on the deck surrounded by bits of radar and the Old Man would pop his head round the corner and say: "Have you checked the fuses?"
Lucky you, I was at Greenhithe and while the radar training was good it left us a bit short when the magnetron, klystron and TR cell went up the wall but I got round that by swapouts which usually improved things. Not my preferred way of fault finding but it was effective.

Quote:
I got on OK with most Chief Engineers but I agree, there were a few d*ckheads. Generally, I admired their knowledge. One who "liked the cut of my gib" was a bit of a concern!
I used to make a point of making friends with at least two people on board, first the cook, then the 2nd engineer. Because we all need to eat and as R/O I often needed metalwork fixed for which I didn't have the tools. The 2/E would talk to the fitter who would then make me a threaded pipe, or weld a bracket or whatever and in return I would fix cassette recorders or whatever came my way. It worked very well.

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Don't worry about David, he's a "Quisling."
I can fight my corner. It's a good job we didn't meet in 1992 I would have had a few choice things to say to him and vice versa.
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Old 27th July 2020, 07:56
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Troppo Troppo is offline
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Originally Posted by Piecesofeight View Post
Training was the killer. R/O training did not include HV which I think was because the colleges didn't want the casualties(!) or to pay the insurance. Certainly that applied to radar training where we only ever learned to f/f on the displays and then only on the signal boards not the HT circuits.


As I said earlier good to have been an R/O at all. Much missed.

In Oz, we were trained on HV in both the MRGC and (especially) the radar course....
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  #72  
Old 27th July 2020, 07:59
Piecesofeight Piecesofeight is offline
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Perhaps I phrased it badly. We knew what HV was and we knew how it was generated, but we didn't do fault finding in the shack on the HV components and so I went to sea with less of that knowledge than I would have liked. As I say I suspect the college was trying to avoid accidents.
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Old 27th July 2020, 08:09
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I never really had a problem with the Engineers I sailed with.

Of course, there was the odd disagreement, but it was never based on the job, rather the personalities.

However, as we all know, one becomes rather expert at getting on with others at sea...!

The tape recorder/auto alarm thing was puzzling...mind you, it came from the same brains trust (MCA) who decided that the 500 watch could be dispensed with ashore prior to the full implementation of the GMDSS on 1 Feb 99...and then closed all the properly engineered coast stations and replaced them with a 250w Skanti operating into a whip antenna....but I digress..

I actually enjoyed both parts of the job - operating and fixing..

I had decided to go ashore once the pot of gold was offered...but if I stayed, I would have gone onto the bridge. I did a lot of makey learnie mate time, and it was very interesting.
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Old 27th July 2020, 09:07
sparkie2182 sparkie2182 is online now  
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Diverging slightly.....
I was always a little surprised at the absence of a fault-finding requirement on the VHF kit
as part the PMG/MRGC courses.
Lots on the theory..... discriminator circuits etc.....the Part 2 exam was restricted to mere fuse location and change........a two minute task at the end of the three hour practical exam.
Considering the preponderance of VHF at sea.....it seemed a bit odd.
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Old 27th July 2020, 09:13
Piecesofeight Piecesofeight is offline
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Certainly. I know the bridge thought we could fix nearly everything and I used to be handed Motorola walkie talkies packed with surface mount components which I didn't have a hope of fixing so had to hand them back and say "Sorry, no can do".

Re the VHFs I mostly encountered the Sailor RT144 where the only problem I remember was the volume control wearing out but again, like the walkie talkies above they were so densely put together they were no fun to take apart, but fortunately in both cases were a very rare request so it didn't matter too much.

Much more work was generated by the radars.
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