Wheel house mechanisms - Ships Nostalgia
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Wheel house mechanisms

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  #1  
Old 30th October 2019, 18:57
sidnik77 sidnik77 is offline
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Wheel house mechanisms

Hi,
can someone identify the parts of the wheel mechanism.
I believe the number that number 3 is the base where it used the compass to sit.
Any idea for the rest?
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  #2  
Old 30th October 2019, 19:16
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This picture appears to have been taken underwater? While I was a ships engineer now and then I worked on bridge steering mechanisms. I will leave it to a deck person that may have more knowledge but I believe # 3 is something that was named ?????? bars and was used to adjust the magnetic field of the compass. You perhaps should try and find a picture without all the sea growth so you can more clearly see what you are looking at.

Greg Hayden
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  #3  
Old 30th October 2019, 19:19
sidnik77 sidnik77 is offline
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Yes the photo was taken underwater,
it's the ex Thomas Hardie,
a flat iron colier built in 1949,
now lying in the Greek Skopelos island,
where it sank as Christoforos in 1983.
Thanks for the clue about the No3
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  #4  
Old 30th October 2019, 19:21
G0SLP G0SLP is offline  
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Flinders bars, Greg
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  #5  
Old 30th October 2019, 19:56
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1 is the rudder indicator.
2'the Telemotor
3 Flinders Bar
4 Magnetic steering compass

Howard
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  #6  
Old 30th October 2019, 20:41
sidnik77 sidnik77 is offline
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Thank you,
can you please tell me where a siemens electric helm indicator could have been placed in the room?
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  #7  
Old 30th October 2019, 23:22
seaman38 seaman38 is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidnik77 View Post
Thank you,
can you please tell me where a siemens electric helm indicator could have been placed in the room?
Normally on the for'd bulkhead of the wheelhouse directly in front of the helmsman line of sight and above the centre line window (or porthole on some of the old Liberty and Empire ships)
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  #8  
Old 31st October 2019, 05:33
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Same on American flag ships I sailed and it had an electric light, that was on a rheostat, so the light level could be controlled.

Greg
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  #9  
Old 31st October 2019, 08:44
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
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#5

For the reasons amply set out at #7 and #8 , it seems quite wrong to suggest that the thing numbered "1" is a rudder indicator.

It looks much more like a gyro repeater, complete with a pelorus on top of it.
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  #10  
Old 31st October 2019, 10:22
seaman38 seaman38 is offline  
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The mechanical rudder indicator or more correctly the angle the wheel movement has indicated is the semi circle construction abaft the figure 4 in the photo and directly in front of the wheel, this indicated the angle of the rudder according to the wheel and was usually hard over at 37.5 degrees on either side. This is why an electric rudder was fitted to give the true position of the rudder.

I would tend to agree that #1 is from its position is probably a master gyro repeater for the QM and the structure on top is a magnifier rather than an azimuth, as there would be too many obstructions in its line of sight to make it a useful azimuth. But we have all been on ships where we have said 'Why in Gods name did they put that there!' or words to that affect!!
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  #11  
Old 31st October 2019, 11:32
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"1" could be the magnetic Autopilot sensor, which was adjusted to the course to steer and controlled the telemotor attached.
Andrew
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  #12  
Old 31st October 2019, 14:04
seaman38 seaman38 is offline  
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Originally Posted by GW3OQK View Post
"1" could be the magnetic Autopilot sensor, which was adjusted to the course to steer and controlled the telemotor attached.
Andrew
After penning my #10 I had to go out, and my mind got to wandering about a steamship I served on, she had no gyro, no radar, a tempramental D/F and a wonky echo sounder, but we did have an auto pilot that worked off the magnetic compass, if I remember rightly it was an ARKAS (Swedish or Danish possibly). I had never sailed with one before (or since) its course keeping was not gyro straight but fairly reasonable, but did free up a man for work on deck, which most preferred (except in the higher latitudes!)
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  #13  
Old 31st October 2019, 14:11
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
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#10 etc

I agree that it might well be an automatic-steering device (rather than a pelorus) on top of the gyro-repater.

Arkas automatic steering I remember on the top of a magnetic compass, but on the top of a gyro, wasn't it more often Sperry or some other?
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  #14  
Old 31st October 2019, 16:05
seaman38 seaman38 is offline  
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[QUOTE=Barrie Youde;3011381

Arkas automatic steering I remember on the top of a magnetic compass, but on the top of a gyro, wasn't it more often Sperry or some other?[/QUOTE]

I think the most used were the Sperry and the S.G.Brown but it was a long long time ago!
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  #15  
Old 31st October 2019, 19:41
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Years ago I met the Mate of the "Darwin" in Montevideo. He told me they prefered the auto pilot on magnetic in heavy weather because it didn't "hunt" the true course so violently but , even though slower, made for a more weatherwise trip.
I think running Monte ~ Falklands they would know plenty of weather.
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  #16  
Old 3rd November 2019, 23:16
Keith Adams Keith Adams is offline
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Just browsing and saw this thread ... no one seems to have answered the original question, although a multiple choice answer was presented with the correct answer included. Item in question is a Flinders Bar.
The binnacle had the port and starboard iron balls and the support case was filled with horizontal steel rods which the Compass Adjuster moved about when the magnetic compass was adjusted, usually after dry dock. The Flinders Bar was a soft iron bar placed vertically in a brass tubular case affixed to the fore part of the binnacle to counteract the ships vertical members such as masts and derricks/ booms. Rather a late response but some one may be interested, hope the questioner didn't need a quick answer !?
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  #17  
Old 3rd November 2019, 23:23
Keith Adams Keith Adams is offline
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Apologies to Howard ... your complete and prompt reply was correct ... being somewhat senile, I jumped to the conclusion you were giving a multiple choice response for we to solve. Sorry ...
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  #18  
Old 4th November 2019, 00:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Adams View Post
Apologies to Howard ... your complete and prompt reply was correct ... being somewhat senile, I jumped to the conclusion you were giving a multiple choice response for we to solve. Sorry ...
No problem Keith.

Howard
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  #19  
Old 4th November 2019, 00:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie Youde View Post
#5

For the reasons amply set out at #7 and #8 , it seems quite wrong to suggest that the thing numbered "1" is a rudder indicator.

It looks much more like a gyro repeater, complete with a pelorus on top of it.
Looking more closely, you may well be right. Abject apologies!

Howard
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  #20  
Old 4th November 2019, 02:09
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Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is offline  
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I suggest we go back to No. 1 & 2 Not a gyro repeater.

Went through a very Sperry book and nothing looks like a gyro repeater in their works and this is from the 1920s. See: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/52053...-h/52053-h.htm

Also these new photos. Definitely a telemotor and helm indicator. Howard, you nailed it first. Look at the Flinder's Bar... offset and on the after side of the binnacle. Might be an after end steering station. If it was on board a puffer the Bar would be on the aft side too!
Stephen
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  #21  
Old 4th November 2019, 02:18
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Howard,

You definitely get the prize for this one. You win a bottle of telemotor hydraulic fluid... might come in red or white, possibly French!

Look at the original photo. You can see the wheel is off set and the axel runs past the binnacle and to the telemotor.

The image here is from wheelhouse of Titanic!

Stephen
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  #22  
Old 4th November 2019, 02:30
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Thomas Hardie when new.
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  #23  
Old 4th November 2019, 17:02
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History of the ship Christoforos

(THOMAS HARDIE)

The ship with its 15 crew members left the port of Volos, loaded with 2.600 tons of concrete, early in the morning of the 2nd of October 1983 for the port of Piraeus and final destination Algeria. The weather conditions were good but during the evening became overcast with rains and strong North gales. In the evening the ship had a 7 degrees list to the right which continued to increase as the time was passing by. Due to these conditions, while being 12 nautical miles north of the islet Pontikonisi, the ship changed course for a safe anchor, which with the suggestion of the fishing vessel Giannakis was Panormos in Skopelos island. When it finally arrived in Panormos, at about 16.00 of the 2nd of October 1983 the waves had broken one of the portholes of the bridge. As a result the bridge had flooded and the list on the left had increased in 17 degrees while there was influx of water in the hold No1. The ballast pump and a portable one were used to pump the water but the level of the water in the hold was not lowering. At about 22.00 the list of the ship increased that much that the right gunwale was in the water. The captain contacted the ship owners and the operations chamber of the Ministry of commercial shipping, operations chamber gave order to abandon the ship, while himself, the second lieutenant and a boatswain remained on the ship, with the help of the vessel Giannakis, checked the depths in Panormos to founder the ship. But there where many variations in depth so there was the fear that the ship could split in two. On the 3rd of October 1983 the tries to save the ship were futile so the captain gave order to abandon the ship, boarding on Giannakis vessel.
Christoforos sank in an upright position at about 05.30, in a depth of 43 meters [1].
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  #24  
Old 4th November 2019, 17:44
sidnik77 sidnik77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
History of the ship Christoforos

(THOMAS HARDIE)

The ship with its 15 crew members left the port of Volos, loaded with 2.600 tons of concrete, early in the morning of the 2nd of October 1983 for the port of Piraeus and final destination Algeria. The weather conditions were good but during the evening became overcast with rains and strong North gales. In the evening the ship had a 7 degrees list to the right which continued to increase as the time was passing by. Due to these conditions, while being 12 nautical miles north of the islet Pontikonisi, the ship changed course for a safe anchor, which with the suggestion of the fishing vessel Giannakis was Panormos in Skopelos island. When it finally arrived in Panormos, at about 16.00 of the 2nd of October 1983 the waves had broken one of the portholes of the bridge. As a result the bridge had flooded and the list on the left had increased in 17 degrees while there was influx of water in the hold No1. The ballast pump and a portable one were used to pump the water but the level of the water in the hold was not lowering. At about 22.00 the list of the ship increased that much that the right gunwale was in the water. The captain contacted the ship owners and the operations chamber of the Ministry of commercial shipping, operations chamber gave order to abandon the ship, while himself, the second lieutenant and a boatswain remained on the ship, with the help of the vessel Giannakis, checked the depths in Panormos to founder the ship. But there where many variations in depth so there was the fear that the ship could split in two. On the 3rd of October 1983 the tries to save the ship were futile so the captain gave order to abandon the ship, boarding on Giannakis vessel.
Christoforos sank in an upright position at about 05.30, in a depth of 43 meters [1].
The above is the official report of the sink of Christoforos,
and it was taken from the book "shipwrecks of the Greek seas" by Admiral Christos Dounis.
The text has a mistake, the ship was 12 NM East of Pontikonisi, if it was 12 miles North it would have been on Land.
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  #25  
Old 4th November 2019, 17:46
sidnik77 sidnik77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith Adams View Post
Just browsing and saw this thread ... no one seems to have answered the original question, although a multiple choice answer was presented with the correct answer included. Item in question is a Flinders Bar.
The binnacle had the port and starboard iron balls and the support case was filled with horizontal steel rods which the Compass Adjuster moved about when the magnetic compass was adjusted, usually after dry dock. The Flinders Bar was a soft iron bar placed vertically in a brass tubular case affixed to the fore part of the binnacle to counteract the ships vertical members such as masts and derricks/ booms. Rather a late response but some one may be interested, hope the questioner didn't need a quick answer !?
Thanks for this, no quick answer was needed
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