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  #1  
Old 19th January 2016, 04:50
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funnelstays funnelstays is offline  
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Paxman

l stubled on this on Flickr l am glad this nutter is not attemping to fly but needs locking up

As a fellow fan of the infernal combustion engine, I often get strange looks & knowing nods when i am at the vintage shows with my engine.
Having visited many steam & vintage shows throughout the years, i felt it was time to have a go at exhibiting. The first problem being which section to go for. Traction engines are far to expensive for me, Military vehicles are fairly limited to about 10 different types, not really into carrying a car full of garden forks around which left stationary engines.
The problem with stationary engines (i just know i am going to get shot for this,) is that there doesnt seem to be much variety. Rows of Listers & petters, all green & all going putt, putt, squirt. There is no denying that hours & days of work has taken place on the kitchen table to get these engines to show condition, but what is the history of the various exhibits?. One day i asked an exhibitor about his masterpiece, His Lister D had been bought to work on a local farm which it did for a few years, then it got burried in bales of hay or straw for many more years. When it finaly saw daylight again, the guy bought it, got it going & hey presto! an exhibit.There must surely be a stationary engine that has a more inspiring career than being burried in bales for years.
The hunt was on. About 18 months went by when i got a call from one of my customers. "you still after a stationary engine?" was i ever! what had he found? "go on ebay & whack paxman diesel into the search box". This done i looked at the screen for a few minutes. Paxman V12YHA diesel. 1000bhp at 1000rpm. Hells teeth! should be able to do something with this, i thought to myself. The auction ended with no bids so a phone call was made & off to Blackburn i went.
When i found the premises in Blackburn & located the seller, who incidentaly restored Gardner 2cylinder diesels, i went to see the Paxman which was outside the building. On rounding the corner i was stopped in my tracks by the sight that greeted me. Not one, but two Paxman diesels sitting side by side. Well, whats a bloke to do? so i bought them both.
Managed to get a well priced haulier (A&P Transport in Stourport) to pick them up for me & deliver them to my house, as you can imagine, my better half was doing her Queen Victoria impression "we are not amused". Ah well, bash on regardless. Had the local garage owner bring has vintage coles crane down to lift them off & the project started.



The next task was to find a trailer for the engine. Back to ebay, (how ever did we do restorations before the advent of ebay?) & found a lovely old York turntable trailer, another bargain. Had that collected by Commercial truck & trailer who delivered it to my home address & again was well priced. Now the fun/problems started. First thing to get done was to have some mounting plates made. The nearby agricultural engineers,Swiborne brothers of Baughton, came to the rescue, measured & made them, then supplied them with all the necessary nuts & bolts for the fixing. Back to the Garage man. This time as the work had to be more accurate he bought his small Boughton crane & lifted the engine onto the trailer.




Now that was done, the next thing was to find a fuel tank (you guessed it, ebay again) big enough to cope with the Paxman appitite. Found a 1000litre tank in the North east that would do the job so hit the button & that problem was solved.
While all this was going on, i thought i had better try to find out a bit about the engine. So i wrote to Paxman in Colchester who are now part of the M.A.N B&W group. Got hold of some really helpful people who told me where the engines were supplied to. Both engines were supplied to the Royal Navy with one being fitted to a dockyard tug as a main propulsion unit & the other (now on the trailer) fitted to a generator on HMS Rhyl.
During her career, HMS Rhyl had quite a history. She was involved with the Bierra blockade, the evacuation of Cyprus, looking for the MV Gaul & fishery protection duties off Norway. If any of her crew read this, please get in touch with me as i am trying to gather information to make a more interesting exhibit.
With the fuel tank on, time to see if it works. As this engine uses an air start system a compressor system was fitted, allbeit a bit Heath Robinson, & the air tanks blown up. The oil pump was started, oil pressure came up, & the start lever was pulled. Engine spun but no start. Tried several times but to no avail. Hmmm, Bleed the fuel system again. No problems there. Spun the engine to check fuel delivery, there was none. Damn! looks expensive. checked & re-checked various fuel supply parts & all was weel but still no fuel delivery. By now, we had been at it for around 9 hours. Eventually, we found a small lever on the fuel pumps, pulled it, hit the starter & we had life! As the engine had been stood for many years, there was a large collection of rust, soot & other debris which came out of the twin turbo chargers, caught the gentle breeze & succesfully deposited themselves right on top of me. All my assistants could see were 2 eyes & a big grin from under the soot!
With an engine this size, cooling is vital. Where do you start to look for a radiator?. Tried the loco preservation groups, sadly not to helpful. Ended up looking at earthmoving equipment. Big engines fitted so must have big radiators. Eventualy came across Richard French who owns Marton trucks near Rugby. He rebuilds the large dump trucks used in quarries & open cast mines & had just what i was looking for. For the princley sum of not a lot, i was now the proud owner of a huge radiator. Get a bracket fabricated & fit the radiator, fill with water & see what happens.



Armed with a 5 gallon can, (25 litres for the younger generation) i set about starting the beast. A few minutes later, it stopped. Must admit i was a bit alarmed with this, no bangs, crashes, clunks, it just stopped. A short time later i found that there was no fuel in the can. Found no evidence of spillage so some more research was started. The reason it stopped soon became apparent. The beast has a healthy appatite, it can quite happily chew through 23 & a 1/2 gallons per hour (approx 107 litres per hour). Looks like my bargain 1000litre fuel tank would not last long at the shows. Agricultural fuel at about 40p per litre means £400 for a tank full. 8 hours running at a show would clear that out so with transport i should not be far off £1000 for a weekend, or 5 days at Dorset steam show would clear me out & give the bank manager heart faliure!. Looks like "demonstration runs only" at the shows, Damn!.
Ah well, got this far so may as well continue. Went to Hanbury steam fair near Bromsgrove for the first outing. It raised a lot of interest & kept me talking for hours, this is where i found out that talk is cheaper than fuel. Needless to say, the saftey officer had never come accross anything like it & was not quite sure what he was supposed to do about the high pressure air start system & other quirks on the exhibit, but we managed to convince him that all would be well. All was very well! my first show ever, the maddest exhibit there, the most untidy exhibit held together with string & cable ties, & walked off with the best stationary engine trophy! Gob smacked or what!.

Work continues with what could well be the most insane project in stationary engine history. Had some exhaust pipes made, Got a small generator to go on it to get it back to its former use & continue to receive help from some unlikley sources. Mainly large companies that you would not expect to give the little guy a second glance. Many thanks especialy to M.A.N. B&W who have been very supportive throughout the project so far.
Please keep looking for updates from now on & dont forget that if you were on the Rhyl, please get in touch.

Just a few quick figures for you.
Cubic capacity works out at nearly 60 litres, with 12 cylinders thats almost a gallon per cylinder.
Max speed continuos 1000rpm but could do 1500 in an emergency. Try not to run at 1500 for too long as things could get very spectacular with bits flying everywhere.
Rated at 450BHP but read somewhere that the pressure charged engines went up to 1000BHP. An oil change will empty a 205litre barrel of engine oil & at full power it will happily chew its way through 23.5 gallons of fuel every hour. Just to put that into context, most car fuel tanks are around 11-12 gallons.
Richard carr`s site www.paxmanhistory.org.uk is well worth a look as it covers the history & developement of Paxman engines from year 1 pretty much. Another site you may be interested in is middle-watch.com which covers Royal Navy frigates & is a wealth of information about shipboard life on the frigates . Have a look in the index on the left, go to engines then diesels. Paxmans are on there.

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  #2  
Old 19th January 2016, 06:58
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To each his own.

Now, I wonder if anybody has got a GM 12V:71 Detroit Diesel laying around, surplus to requirements?

Would make loads of money hiring out ear defenders while I demonstrated it.

Must see about this mild tinnitus one day..........


Cheers,

Roy.
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Old 19th January 2016, 07:14
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Satanic Mechanic Satanic Mechanic is offline  
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To each his own.

Now, I wonder if anybody has got a GM 12V:71 Detroit Diesel laying around, surplus to requirements?

Would make loads of money hiring out ear defenders while I demonstrated it.

Must see about this mild tinnitus one day..........


Cheers,

Roy.
I have two going spare!!!!!!
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Old 19th January 2016, 07:19
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Oh dear lord this Lunatic actually bought two paxmans and actually likes them

Nawt as queer etc.
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Old 19th January 2016, 07:40
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"Engine spun but no start" - what do you expect - it is a Paxman - the number f times I have frantically pulled the lever whilst the electric dark bulbs are springing into life .... also Bank Lines "Cora Class" diesel powered stand by starting compressor would not cope with the beast's voracious appetite for air.

I have said before - never buy an engine that starts with "P" - Pielstick, Paxman or Polar
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Old 19th January 2016, 14:50
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I rather be interviewed by him than work on one
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Old 19th January 2016, 14:58
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I rather be interviewed by him than work on oneStevies liked them aswell
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Old 19th January 2016, 17:02
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I have two going spare!!!!!!
You're very lucky. Sometimes, they go scream, howl, clunk !

Roy.
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Old 19th January 2016, 17:04
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I have said before - never buy an engine that starts with "P" - Pielstick, Paxman or Polar
You can add Perkins to that list.

Roy.
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Old 19th January 2016, 17:29
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On shipbuilders sea trials on RFA Black Rover way back when, I asked the Paxman rep when he was going to fix the oil leaks on the generators and his reply was if there are NO oil leaks there is no oil in the crankcase!!!
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Old 19th January 2016, 19:11
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You can add Perkins to that list.

Roy.
and Stoork Weerspoor!
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Old 19th January 2016, 19:14
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The last time I saw a GM - V engine, it was missing a couple of valves. Yes, some remnants were still in the cylinder.
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Old 19th January 2016, 21:44
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"Engine spun but no start" - what do you expect - it is a Paxman - the number f times I have frantically pulled the lever whilst the electric dark bulbs are springing into life .... also Bank Lines "Cora Class" diesel powered stand by starting compressor would not cope with the beast's voracious appetite for air.

I have said before - never buy an engine that starts with "P" - Pielstick, Paxman or Polar
Or Pdoxford.
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Old 19th January 2016, 22:57
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What is all this rubbish about paxmans?the ASN/ transport Ferry Service ran freight ferries powered by Paxmans,running every day until their 12 month drydocking.i was not an engineer but I cannot remember any of the paxman ships ever breaking down.

I believe that Paxmans were based somewhere near colchester,fine ships and a fine company
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Old 20th January 2016, 00:23
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The last time I saw a GM - V engine, it was missing a couple of valves. Yes, some remnants were still in the cylinder.
I don't know that that counts as missing, you knew where they were. We had a 1 MW (?) set welded to the deck aft of the dining saloon on Stonehaven, roots blowers and multiple turbos (actually one less than multiple as, yes, a dropped valve went through one).

Last edited by Varley; 20th January 2016 at 00:26..
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Old 20th January 2016, 02:12
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The Brooke Marine built inshore patrol craft for the RNZN were fitted with twin Paxman JCM diesels each 3000HP to achieve 25 knots.
The Kiwi trim, laden with extra recreational gear , food and personal comforts was the main cause of engine failure, namely the valve seats popping out of the heads with obvious consequences . The boats just couldn't make it up on to the plane at full throttle When on patrol

Bob
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Old 20th January 2016, 02:26
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Umm, I might be able to read the opening article if it was changed from orange/white to black/white!
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Old 20th January 2016, 06:28
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Most stationary engines displayed at Steam Fairs and other meets seem to be run without any load applied. There are plenty of films on You Tube showing ancient machinery just running, and one or two in the "Epic Fail" category just running away and destroying themselves. (Curiously, or perhaps not, Detroit Diesels seem to feature quite prominently in this section!)
I could never see the point of just firing up a motor and revving it up. The sound is completely different if it is running under load in many cases. And in any case, some of the exhaust and silencer systems are not authentic either, some operators just using straight through pipes. All very spectacular, but hardly authentic. If you want to listen to medium and high speed motors working under load, take a wander around the generating sets of a travelling fairground. Most I have seen are Gardner 6LW, or 6LX motors, usually running flat out.

Somebody commented once that the GM Detroit Diesel engine was the most efficient machine devised to convert diesel fuel into noise.

Roy.
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Old 20th January 2016, 20:45
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Good one Roy! Very true.
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Old 20th January 2016, 21:54
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The boats just couldn't make it up on to the plane at full throttle When on patrol

Bob
Reminded me of an incident I saw in Torquay in the early 1970's. One of the fleet of powerboats in the Cowes Torquay Cowes Offshore powerboat race had retired into Torquay. The following morning, after working on the engines, they gave her a trial. From memory, her engines were twin Perkins T6354's. There were three crew in the cockpit, which was situated right aft. They motored out of the harbour, and approaching the Fairway buoy, opened the throttles. Up came the bow, and the exhausts spewed out clouds of black smoke as she struggled to get up on the plane. She may have had trim tabs that weren't working. Anyway, one of the crew scrambled out of the cockpit, over the windscreen onto the foredeck. He moved as far forward as he could, without improving matters. Then a second member repeated this exercise, with the same lack of success. Finally, the third (and last) crew member let go of the helm and clambered on to the foredeck with his mates.
Success!! Or maybe not.
She unstuck, and three crewmen were then frantically trying to get back into the cockpit as the boat set off for Paignton at around 35 knots with nobody on the controls.
Still, it cured the black smoke problem!
The boat was called Freebooter.

Cheers,

Roy.
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Old 21st January 2016, 05:01
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Worst case scenario Jeremy Paxman Chief Engineer.
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Old 21st January 2016, 10:36
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Cherry red is the colour of my Paxman's blower.

(That could go to music I've a fancy).
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Old 21st January 2016, 11:24
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The Germans built good diesels. It's a pity that all those U Boats were scuttled after the war without extracting their machinery.
As a non engineer the only British Diesel that I have heard anything good said about is Gardner. I stand in hope to be corrected.
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Old 21st January 2016, 12:31
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Could this be it?

(Health warning: C/E's of a nervous disposition look away now.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNPi9NhfsLY

She needs to take a bit more Weetabix, it took her a while to kick-start it. Mind you, she didn't break sweat.
Wonder if HSE have seen it? Does anyone have a part number for the piece of carboard on the donkey?
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Old 21st January 2016, 19:01
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The Germans built good diesels. It's a pity that all those U Boats were scuttled after the war without extracting their machinery.
As a non engineer the only British Diesel that I have heard anything good said about is Gardner. I stand in hope to be corrected.
Gardners were reliable and economical because they only produced very modest horsepower for the size of the engine. They would keep running despite poor maintenance, but the less attention they got, the smokier they became. Lubricating oil would pool in the crowns of the pistons, giving lots of blue smoke on start up.
That said, I knew a Gardner service engineer who would give old Gardners a quick overhaul and clean up, and have them shipped to China, where they were used to drive irrigation pumps in the paddies.
The LW series of engines produce 12HP per cylinder when used in Marine applications. (i.e., a 5LW produced 60 HP, a 6LW gave 72HP, both at 1500 rpm. The slightly larger capacity 6LX gave 127HP at 1500 rpm.)

Some German designs could be temperamental. The Maybachs built in the UK under licence for British Railways Western Region classes of locomotives were notorious for a number of faults and break downs.

Roy.
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