oil spill off Louisiana - Page 9 - Ships Nostalgia
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oil spill off Louisiana

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  #201  
Old 26th July 2010, 11:50
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Supergoods Supergoods is offline  
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The inspections here are much like the situation in the UK prior to Piper Alpha.
The Coastguard inspects the "Ship" equipment, the Minerals Management Service inspects the "Industrial Equipment"
When a non-USA flag rig arrives in US Waters the Coastguard carries out an inspection for a "Certificate of Complience" (or similar named document) without which you cannot drill. Full inspections are every two years with a mid term inspection every other year.
The Flag State and Classification inspections and are carried out in accordance with their rules and there is ofton cross information passed between these three bodies.
The Minerals Management Service do spot inspections without notice, although they usually seemed to show up about lunch time on steak day.
In US waters the standards maintained on the rigs be they US or non- US Flag are very much the same.
The biggest problem is the lack of experience of the rotating Coast Guard personnel and the low budget surveyors sometimes used by the Flag States.
Ian
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  #202  
Old 26th July 2010, 15:09
Billieboy Billieboy is offline  
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Probably NoR, otherwise they wiould not have been able to drill in that position, also, the crew were mostly US citizens from a Louisiana base, the USCG would have been involved at sea, under MARPOL.

Sorry Supercargo, I didn't see your post, it was on the next page for me!

Last edited by Billieboy; 26th July 2010 at 15:20.. Reason: additional sentance
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  #203  
Old 26th July 2010, 23:23
Don Matheson Don Matheson is offline  
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USCG inspect ships and oil rigs which are US flagged anywhere in the world. Have had CG officers on board a Jack Up I was on in drydock in Rotterdam. As this was the only drydock in Europe we could use they were there a couple of times during my time on the rig. Company would tell them we were going to dock and they would come out and inspect us trying to keep to the two year visits.
In the GOM the Coast Guard inspect every rig or ship which will be working there. On a rig if they dont visit you wont be working so the companies try to inform them prior to drilling starting.
Have had some very clever CG inspectors who knew there stuff and were excellent inspectors.

NoR The rig was flagged in the Caymen Islands and the company in Switzerland for tax reasons. It was still an American rig and crewed with Transocean crew mostly from the States. As for the part of the BOP which was not functioning, it was a control system not the BOP itself, and there are two control systems on the stack to prevent returning to the surface if one fails. This is a standard oil field fitting and event. The use of two controls is standard to every BOP.

Pat I read the link you provided which scared me more than I expected. This guy is a senior hand, discovers a major fault and does nothing, am I supposed to believe that. He says he also dicscovered
a system shut down but again did nothing. I have to ask myself, if I reported a major problem and no one did anything about it I would be taking it further and if it still was not repaired I would be on the phone to the Coast Guard and let them fix it, which they will. I would not, and I am sure no one on this forum would, live with a major system bypassed for a year or however long they say. Plenty of other jobs around rather than risk my life.
Transocean are a large company which has grown large in a very short space of time and they have guys from lots of companies working for them and I have had dealings with some of their rigs (from various companies as well as TO.) and have never heard of anything like this going on. I am not saying it wasnt done but I had never heard of it and I am sure its not a company wide policy.

At least we are starting to get some information out from the crews but unfortunately the main witnesses will not be there. I still think we need to wait to get the results of the inquiry before we can point fingers.

Don
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  #204  
Old 27th July 2010, 06:12
Billieboy Billieboy is offline  
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Alarm Problems (Fire and General)

I had occasion to be involved wiht a class off 300K dwt VLCCs (6) as they came into service. The vessels were to be A1* UMS IGS, at LRS.

Attending the third vessel on arrival at Rotterdam, I was in the cargo control room on the phone to the office, at about 09.00, when the most ungodly row started up with three different sirens blasting all around the ship. After about five minutes the sound stopped and the tannoy confirmed stand down after a false alarm.

Discussing various valve problem with the C/E later, it was revealed that faults in the fire/smoke detection systems were throwing up false alarms at an initial rate of five per day, which had been reduced in the last month to about one every two days. The crew were getting, (rightly), very upset. Every false alarm set the engineers to tracing the fault, this could take one hour or one month! But Master and Staff, were adamant that should the system be shut down then they would walk off the ship. Owners then inundated the ships at each port with alarm fault finders, until everything was working correctly.

I had various hot work jobs in the engine room, for which I obtained the correct paperwork from the harbour master. Within seconds of starting hot work the alarms would go off, whereupon the Engineers would isolate the relevant detector. When asked why I hadn't asked for the detector to be isolated before the work started, I said that I would never do that, as I wanted to ensure that the system was working.

False alarms are annoying, but NO alarms KILL!
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  #205  
Old 27th July 2010, 08:48
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Quote:
and there are two control systems on the stack to prevent returning to the surface if one fails
I suppose that if both control systems where u/s then the BOP stack would just be so much ironmongery sitting on the sea bed. I would have thought that the fact that there are two systems would be to guard against the eventuality of the primary system failing at a critical time, and not to permit continued operation with only one system operative.

Was it a BOP failure that caused the leak? And if so does anyone know what sort of failure?
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  #206  
Old 27th July 2010, 15:24
Don Matheson Don Matheson is offline  
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NoR The main reason for having two control systems is that if one system goes down the rig is able to continue to drill while still using the BOP.
It is as you say much better to return to the surface and repair or change the system but such a thing is not really possible once the rig is drilling. If you are drilling in open hole you would have no control over the well as to return to the surface you would need to bring in the riser then change the Control System then run back to the sea bed before latching on to the casing and reinstating the well safety. This could take quite a few days as riser is much more work than running drill pipe and the rig in question was drilling in 1000ft of water and the riser is in around 40 to 60 foot sections.
All the time the BOP was disconnected you would have no contro; over the well, not something you would like to do or indeed have happen.
If the system fails on both sides then it can normally be operated by an ROV to close it but as you can understand this would be an emergency only.

Don

As to the BOP being the fault or part of the fault I feel we should wait for the result of the inquiry.

Last edited by Don Matheson; 27th July 2010 at 15:26..
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  #207  
Old 27th July 2010, 17:16
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Returning to the more general subject of alarms and the equipment being alarmed.
The current rig monitoring systems cover so much equipment and areas, not all of which are safety critical, that they may be in perpetual alarm status and I have seen many times a critical alarm acknowledged along with a multitude of non critical alarms which could have provided early warning of a potential a disaster.
Rig crews are sometimes non receptive to complex safety systems:
The first battle was to close the watertight doors, the next to keep the gas tight doors on the under/over pressure segregation system closed.
I have found BCO's on UK sector rigs where the standard is claimed to be higher with the over-ride button on the fire detectors taped on to stop alarms sounding.
These alarm systems are complex and sometimes too over engineered to be effective so the possibility that the gas detectors or some part of them were bypassed does not surprise me.
I have been involved in a number of incident investigations where misread, switched out or badly planned alarms could have saved the day.
How its supposed to be, and is if an inspector is on board, and how it is on a day to day basis are sometimes very different.
As far as the inquiry bringing out the truth of what happened, it is my experience that the correct root cause is more often than not missed.

Ian
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  #208  
Old 2nd August 2010, 16:10
Don Matheson Don Matheson is offline  
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The Development Driller III is now finishing her cement job after running her last casing. They have cleaned the well and are ready to start to kill the live well. They have been held up quite a bit by the storm as they had to pull off due to weather then come back and latch on again. With luck this next week or so should see the end of the live well. Had they not had the storm the well would most likely have been completed as I believe they were told to pull off the well for safety reasons, mostly from people who dont understand very large foul weather rigs. DD II is still doing maintenance and has not restarted drilling while they wait to see what happens with the well. She is there just in case(?) another Government idea.

Must say that since the well was capped and the oil stopped being shown on TV there has been a lot less said by the "Hangem Brigade" a lot of the BP attacking seemed to end about the time the politicians discovered that the "Good old Boys" seemed to know what they were talking about and this was the way to kill the well.
Still dont understand why the Coast Guard wanted to take the cap off to see how much oil was leaking out. To me that has got to be one of the worst ideas ever thought up by anyone.
I see they are talking about taking in some of the floating booms as there does not seem to be a need for them in some areas. Let us hope its the beginning of the end.
Will be very interested to see the Governments response once it is all over.

Don
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  #209  
Old 2nd August 2010, 17:10
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Originally Posted by Don Matheson View Post
Still dont understand why the Coast Guard wanted to take the cap off to see how much oil was leaking out. To me that has got to be one of the worst ideas ever thought up by anyone.
I agree it was crazy, however the reasoning was that there would now be a measurable flow which would be used to establish the total volume of the spill and hence the fine to be levelled under OPA.
Another desk driven decision.

Ian
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  #210  
Old 2nd August 2010, 17:41
Don Matheson Don Matheson is offline  
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Ian Yes it was crazy! I believe it would have involved opening the well for about three days (think of the pollution) but what if they were not able to get it back on first go, it could have been off for a while, so who do you charge for that?
You dont think this could have been a desk driven idea do you???
I do hope it was, as I would hate to think anyone intelligent came up with that idea!

Don
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  #211  
Old 2nd August 2010, 18:03
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I have a lot of respect for Thad Allen, but he must follow the orders of his political masters.

Ian
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  #212  
Old 2nd August 2010, 18:50
Don Matheson Don Matheson is offline  
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Supergoods You are right about Thad Allen he in himself seems a very clever chap and as a Coast Guard Admiral was pretty good at his job. He however has to jump through hoops when told and he seems to know what he is talking about so I can only assume his bosses are the stumbling block.

I read his report every day and some days he makes a lot of sense and others not, at those times I ask myself who is writing his script today.

Don
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  #213  
Old 2nd August 2010, 18:59
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I wonder if in future, the US Government will insist that a relief well is drilled in tandem with the main well as a belt and braces measure.
It would double the cost of drilling, but could save this enormously expensive fiasco from being repeated.
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  #214  
Old 2nd August 2010, 19:53
Don Matheson Don Matheson is offline  
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That has already been mentioned Pat but I am sure the Government will wake up when they hear what it will do to the price of oil. The US is desperate for oil and the GOM provides a whole lot of their oil and deep water provides a big part of that.
Large Semi today day rate is around $40,000-$60,000 a day. A large part of the relief well costs are because the Government wanted a second well drilled just in case the first one did not work. Now whos idea was that, a relief well for a relief well.
You just could not make this up.

Don
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  #215  
Old 2nd August 2010, 23:10
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dom

is it true that BP are thinking of changing their marketing name in the States??
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  #216  
Old 3rd August 2010, 08:44
lochluichart lochluichart is offline  
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Apparently some of the petrol statiion operators want to revive the AMOCO brand.
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  #217  
Old 3rd August 2010, 10:52
D Sutton D Sutton is offline  
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Apparently some of the petrol statiion operators want to revive the AMOCO brand.
Anyone remember "Freedom fries" That worked well didn't it.
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  #218  
Old 4th August 2010, 16:32
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The local media sent a reporter out to get water samples from all the beaches from Texas to Florida.
The analysis revealed no oil in the beach water much to their consternation the ad revenue enhancing boondogle seems to be over.
Now they are trying to pontificate where the oil went.
Some probably did go to the bottom in pretty much solid formin the low temperatures, the majotity just plain evaporated leaving the rest as tar balls.
I suppose the next revival will be the air quality experts.
Ian
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  #219  
Old 5th August 2010, 16:34
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This episode has done about as much for the reputation of the United States amongst people elsewhere as the OJ Simpson trial did.
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  #220  
Old 5th August 2010, 17:24
Don Matheson Don Matheson is offline  
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It still does not stop though. Carol Browner who is the Assistant to the President for Energy and Climate Change has said, We will continue to ensure that BP is held accountable for the damage done. Hello Mrs Browner, BP has said from day one that they will be responsible for ALL damage. so what is she rabbiting about. I can only assume they, the Government, are searching about for something to say since US Government scientists have said that most of the oil seems to be gone. I know its not all gone but a lot of it is and where its affecting beaches etc, it is being controlled and of course BP is paying for it.

The well itself is not dead yet as the top kill is, I believe, being pumped down through "choke and kill lines" but it seems to be holding it down. They will have to cement it in to allow Development Driller to drill into the casing and plug it properly inside the well.

Don
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  #221  
Old 5th August 2010, 18:30
Bob Murdoch Bob Murdoch is offline  
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I have no knowledge of this subjct at all. I am extremely grateful to all you guys on this thread who know what is what and helping to educate this tired old brain.
I watched a bit on CNN over the weekend where one of the CNN talking twits was out doing his bit to help clean up the 'mess' on the beaches. The recording I watched took place over less than an hour (condensed I can assure you, otherwise I would not have watched as much of the garbage as I did) during which time the following was noticable.
1. Our hero had not lost his makeup and his hair grooming was still in place. But he constantly complained about how hot and terrible it all was.
2. 15 minutes later, still immaculate, our hero still was complaining how terribly hot and hard the work was. Hair and make up still fine. (timing was his)
3. 15 minutes later, ditto 2 above.
By this time he had put about two spadefulls of sand into a plastic bag, with the help of 4 or 5 fellow sufferers. All of this team looked as though they were Mr Macd's dream customers. So I guess they were allowed to sweat a bit.
4. ditto 2 & 3 above, but now he staggered with his cubic foot of sand with a few little black balls in it off to some undisclosed destination. I think he had probably sweated more oil from his makup onto the beach than had come from the well.
I gave up at this point.
The news, print and tv have relegated any info on the clean up to merely saying that things look as though they may be under control just now, but BP will pay.
As you say, Don, BP have agreed to this since before obama et all started doing their hate campaign.
Anyhow, you guys who know about this stuff, please keep us informed.
Cheers, Bob

Last edited by Bob Murdoch; 5th August 2010 at 18:33..
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  #222  
Old 5th August 2010, 18:40
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The trouble is that so much bullshit from so called experts will now be pushed out over the media that this will become a soap.
I am no expert in the oil or offshore industry, but I really look forward with great interest to the time when the proper papers come out with the findings, efforts, failures, lessons learned and knowledge gained ( which will be immense, I'm sure) around this very unfortunate disaster.
But I feel we are going to hear mucho crapo in the meantime from all the armchair geniuses until then.
Why, oh why, did I not train as a lawyer?
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  #223  
Old 5th August 2010, 21:03
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That has already been mentioned Pat but I am sure the Government will wake up when they hear what it will do to the price of oil. The US is desperate for oil and the GOM provides a whole lot of their oil and deep water provides a big part of that.
Large Semi today day rate is around $40,000-$60,000 a day. A large part of the relief well costs are because the Government wanted a second well drilled just in case the first one did not work. Now whos idea was that, a relief well for a relief well.
You just could not make this up.

Don
Don,
What do you think of this piece I found it a couple of days ago,any truth in it, or is it another EXPERT spouting off.

Here's an interesting read, important and verifiable information :

About 6 months ago, the writer was watching a news program on oil and
one of the Forbes Bros. was the guest. The host said to Forbes, "I am
going to
ask you a direct question and I would like a direct answer; how much oil
does the U.S. have in the ground?" Forbes did not miss a beat, he
said, "more
than all the Middle East put together." Please read below.

The U. S. Geological Service issued a report in April 2008 that only
scientists and oil men knew was coming, but man was it big. It was a
revised report (hadn't been updated since 1995) on how much oil was in
this area of the western 2/3 of North Dakota , western South Dakota ,
and extreme eastern Montana ......

check THIS out:

http://bakkenshale.net/bakkenshalemap.html



The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska 's
Prudhoe
Bay, and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on
foreign
oil. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503
billion
barrels. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable... at $107 a barrel,
we're looking at a resource base worth more than $5..3 trillion.

"When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see
their jaws hit the floor. They had no idea.." says Terry Johnson, the
Montana
Legislature's financial analyst.

"This sizable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found
in the past 56 years," reports The Pittsburgh Post Gazette. It's a
formation known as the Williston Basin , but is more commonly
referred to as the
'Bakken.' It stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and
into Canada .. For years, U. S. oil exploration has been considered
a dead
end. Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching for major oil wells
decades ago. However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up
the Bakken's massive reserves.... and we now have access of up to 500
billion barrels. And because this is light, sweet oil, those billions
of barrels
will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL!

That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 2041 years
straight. And if THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then this next one
should - because it's from 2006!

U. S. Oil Discovery- Largest Reserve in the World

Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006

Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the
largest untapped oil reserve in the world. It is more than 2 TRILLION
barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush mandated its extraction. In
three and a half years of high oil prices none has been extracted. With
this
motherload of oil why are we still fighting over off-shore drilling?

They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside our borders,
than all the other proven reserves on earth. Here are the official
estimates:

- 8-times as much oil as Saudi Arabia

- 18-times as much oil as Iraq

- 21-times as much oil as Kuwait

- 22-times as much oil as Iran

- 500-times as much oil as Yemen

- and it's all right here in the Western United States .


James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says we've got more oil in
this very compact area than the entire Middle East -more than 2
TRILLION
barrels untapped. That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude
oil in
the world today, reports The Denver Post.

Don't think 'OPEC' will drop its price - even with this find? Think
again!
It's all about the competitive marketplace, - it has to. Think OPEC just
might be funding the environmentalists?




s


By the way...this is all true. Check it out at the link below!!!

GOOGLE it, or follow this link. It will blow your mind.

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911

<http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911

>
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  #224  
Old 5th August 2010, 21:33
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Maybe I am mistaken but I seem to recall that a couple of days after the Blowout somebody from the "Global" Company BP mentioned that it might be the middle of August before the well was finally sealed. Don't ask for names or places 'cos I haven't a clue, but I am CERTAIN somebody made that statement................pete
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  #225  
Old 5th August 2010, 21:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Matheson View Post
Large Semi today day rate is around $40,000-$60,000 a day.
Don
Don, I think there may be a zero missing off these rates unless they are total distress rates local to the Gulf of Mexico.

At times you can't even get a decent anchor handler for the rates quoted.

Ian
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