RIDING THE WAVES - BP Shipping 1915-2015 book - Ships Nostalgia
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RIDING THE WAVES - BP Shipping 1915-2015 book

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  #1  
Old 2nd April 2015, 21:05
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ninabaker ninabaker is offline  
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RIDING THE WAVES - BP Shipping 1915-2015 book

Everyone who was invited to one of the centenary dinners will have had a copy of this beautiful book. Sadly there is a fundamental mistake in the headline on page 210 in the Living and Working at Sea section: The headline says I was their first ENGINEERING cadet when of course I was BP's (and the UK MN's) first DECK cadet.

The text in the book was the outcome of a very lengthy telephone interview from which the authors somehow didnt hear what I thought I was saying. I emailed BP about it and I now realise that it is at least partly my fault as the draft text was sent to me but I never noticed the headline part and only corrected some errors in the text. I am astonished at my own carelessness.

I reccommend everyone who has a book should correct their by hand so that future owners of the book will not assume it to be correct.
nina
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Old 3rd April 2015, 16:06
brummiechris brummiechris is offline  
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Originally Posted by ninabaker View Post
Everyone who was invited to one of the centenary dinners will have had a copy of this beautiful book. Sadly there is a fundamental mistake in the headline on page 210 in the Living and Working at Sea section: The headline says I was their first ENGINEERING cadet when of course I was BP's (and the UK MN's) first DECK cadet.

The text in the book was the outcome of a very lengthy telephone interview from which the authors somehow didnt hear what I thought I was saying. I emailed BP about it and I now realise that it is at least partly my fault as the draft text was sent to me but I never noticed the headline part and only corrected some errors in the text. I am astonished at my own carelessness.

I reccommend everyone who has a book should correct their by hand so that future owners of the book will not assume it to be correct.
nina
Unfortunately this is not the only error.
  • It has been pointed out in another thread that the photo on page is not the Br Argosy referred to in the caption.
  • On page 23 it is stated that BTC was formed on 30th April 2015!
  • Page 297 lists the Br Valour (1927) as being disposed of in 1941, Harvey and Solly and the Clydebuilt site both report her in use until scrapped in 1954.
  • Page 298 lists the Br Maple (1951) as disposed of in 1972, while page 300 lists a new Br Maple delivered in 1965, so there were two at sea between 65 and 72?
  • Similarly page 300 list Border Jouster(1994) as being disposed of in 2005, whilst page 301 shows another Jouster as being delivered in 2004.

There may well be more.

As you say Nina, we all make mistakes but given the resources available for the preparation for the book and app there are too many here.
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  #3  
Old 3rd April 2015, 19:34
ColumDoyle ColumDoyle is offline
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Riding the Waves

Hi everyone,

As the third party who was commissioned by BP Shipping to help research, write, and edit the Centenary Book 'Riding the Waves', I thought it might be helpful if I explained some background to how the Book, Film, App and Exhibition came about.

It's worth starting by acknowledging the excellent work of Bill Harvey and Ray Solly in their book 'BP Tankers' and Norman Middlemiss in his book 'The British Tankers' - both of which marked BP Shipping's 90th anniversary. I commend them to anyone who hasn’t seen them. For the Centenary, BP decided that these two books already did a good job of telling the 90 year story from the perspective of the technical aspects and detail of the fleet and specific historical factors relating to its operation. 'BP Tankers' contains a remarkable log of every vessel - large and small - that had some association with a BP business (not just the shipping arm) over the 90 years - I take my hat off to the authors who I understand began fleet research 25 years ago. It was a mammoth undertaking.

The brief for the Centenary book was to do two things. First to tell the story of BP's shipping arm set against the big picture of world events that explains how BP itself evolved as a major integrated oil company and how its shipping arm responded. Ie to give context to and allow the reader to make some sense of why the shipping arm did what it did over those 100 years. The title 'Riding the Waves' we hope speaks for itself. In undertaking the task, the company gave generous access to its archive at Warwick University and to its image library as well as to BP Shipping's own records which stretched back to 1915.

The second part of the brief was to include a 'social history' to give readers a taste of some of the reasons why men and women go to sea at a young age, their early experiences, what life was like at sea and ashore and how it changed down through the decades. This allowed us to take brief forays into relating some individual experiences as told to our interviewers to give the book a personal connection. That was probably the very hardest part - what to put in - what to leave out - from the mountain of material that we had acquired. The number of anecdotes - some unpublishable - that we received would fill a book all by themselves. Equally, there were so many incidents at sea, breakdowns, towing, rescues etc that we had to leave out far more than we could put in.

Finally, a book about a shipping company could not be complete without some ships. We decided not to simply replicate the work of the earlier books - but instead to work with the company in the unenviable task of selecting a handful of vessels that we felt were notable in some way and punctuated the history and evolution of BP Shipping as told in the earlier chapters. It was unenviable because we knew every seafarer reading the book would have his or her own personal list of ships special to them.

We closed the book by updating the 'official' Fleet list prepared by a team of BPS retirees for the 90th anniversary. One thing that was absolutely clear to me in undertaking this task with the help of many others - was that the definition of what vessel should be included in such a list is fraught with difficulty. In updating the 90th list, we had to make compromise - not least what actually comprises an oil and gas vessel in the days of hybrids.

The book, film, app and exhibitions have been a huge undertaking with a large cast of contributors. We were a very small team involved in research and writing but we were fortunate to have a group of retired and current BP seafarers act as advisers to the project - both navigating and engineering - the oldest of whom sailed in the WW2 on a BP vessel of 1920s vintage - as well as onshore staff from naval architects to vetting managers.

We were inundated with contributions from those who sailed with the fleet - from many roles and ranks. A number were extremely generous with their time including Nina Baker - who made the journey to London for us to participate in some filming - as well as sharing her recollections with one of our journalists conducting interviews by phone. The last thing I want is for the Book to detract from her remarkable achievement in succeeding as a female cadet in the early 70s. The 'engineering cadet' heading error arose simply because of Nina's 40 year track record in the engineering field after she came ashore. For the many people who read the subsequent copy before publication - seafarers, shore staff, editorial team - her engineering achievements in the story led all to believe that the heading to the story of 'engineering cadet' was correct and appropriate. It was one of those things - very annoying and frustrating for all and not least for Nina who as she has posted also missed the error when correcting and approving the article. We now have the opportunity to put this right for the online version which will be the most publicly available version of the Book and the official record lodged with the BP Archive and available to future researchers will ensure the correct title. The online version I understand will go live shortly after the official Centenary date of April 30.

Inevitably there will be a few errors of commission and omission in a book covering 100 years with 90,000 words, 600 archive pictures, tens of thousands of people who worked for the company and up to 1000 vessels of all shapes and sizes. We have taken great care in its compilation but inevitably a few things will slip the net.

My apologies for such a long post but I hope this is helpful background to the book and its origins. As a story and a record of the very fine achievements and service of everyone associated with the company, I hope you really enjoy it - and are generous in judging its overall merit.

Finally, I know everyone associated with the Centenary project sends Nina their very best in her recovery from her recent serious ill-health.

Best regards

Colum Doyle
Lead Writer & Editor
'Riding the Waves'
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  #4  
Old 3rd April 2015, 22:04
Campbell47 Campbell47 is offline  
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Originally Posted by ColumDoyle View Post
Hi everyone,

As the third party who was commissioned by BP Shipping to help research, write, and edit the Centenary Book 'Riding the Waves', I thought it might be helpful if I explained some background to how the Book, Film, App and Exhibition came about.

It's worth starting by acknowledging the excellent work of Bill Harvey and Ray Solly in their book 'BP Tankers' and Norman Middlemiss in his book 'The British Tankers' - both of which marked BP Shipping's 90th anniversary. I commend them to anyone who hasn’t seen them. For the Centenary, BP decided that these two books already did a good job of telling the 90 year story from the perspective of the technical aspects and detail of the fleet and specific historical factors relating to its operation. 'BP Tankers' contains a remarkable log of every vessel - large and small - that had some association with a BP business (not just the shipping arm) over the 90 years - I take my hat off to the authors who I understand began fleet research 25 years ago. It was a mammoth undertaking.

The brief for the Centenary book was to do two things. First to tell the story of BP's shipping arm set against the big picture of world events that explains how BP itself evolved as a major integrated oil company and how its shipping arm responded. Ie to give context to and allow the reader to make some sense of why the shipping arm did what it did over those 100 years. The title 'Riding the Waves' we hope speaks for itself. In undertaking the task, the company gave generous access to its archive at Warwick University and to its image library as well as to BP Shipping's own records which stretched back to 1915.

The second part of the brief was to include a 'social history' to give readers a taste of some of the reasons why men and women go to sea at a young age, their early experiences, what life was like at sea and ashore and how it changed down through the decades. This allowed us to take brief forays into relating some individual experiences as told to our interviewers to give the book a personal connection. That was probably the very hardest part - what to put in - what to leave out - from the mountain of material that we had acquired. The number of anecdotes - some unpublishable - that we received would fill a book all by themselves. Equally, there were so many incidents at sea, breakdowns, towing, rescues etc that we had to leave out far more than we could put in.

Finally, a book about a shipping company could not be complete without some ships. We decided not to simply replicate the work of the earlier books - but instead to work with the company in the unenviable task of selecting a handful of vessels that we felt were notable in some way and punctuated the history and evolution of BP Shipping as told in the earlier chapters. It was unenviable because we knew every seafarer reading the book would have his or her own personal list of ships special to them.

We closed the book by updating the 'official' Fleet list prepared by a team of BPS retirees for the 90th anniversary. One thing that was absolutely clear to me in undertaking this task with the help of many others - was that the definition of what vessel should be included in such a list is fraught with difficulty. In updating the 90th list, we had to make compromise - not least what actually comprises an oil and gas vessel in the days of hybrids.

The book, film, app and exhibitions have been a huge undertaking with a large cast of contributors. We were a very small team involved in research and writing but we were fortunate to have a group of retired and current BP seafarers act as advisers to the project - both navigating and engineering - the oldest of whom sailed in the WW2 on a BP vessel of 1920s vintage - as well as onshore staff from naval architects to vetting managers.

We were inundated with contributions from those who sailed with the fleet - from many roles and ranks. A number were extremely generous with their time including Nina Baker - who made the journey to London for us to participate in some filming - as well as sharing her recollections with one of our journalists conducting interviews by phone. The last thing I want is for the Book to detract from her remarkable achievement in succeeding as a female cadet in the early 70s. The 'engineering cadet' heading error arose simply because of Nina's 40 year track record in the engineering field after she came ashore. For the many people who read the subsequent copy before publication - seafarers, shore staff, editorial team - her engineering achievements in the story led all to believe that the heading to the story of 'engineering cadet' was correct and appropriate. It was one of those things - very annoying and frustrating for all and not least for Nina who as she has posted also missed the error when correcting and approving the article. We now have the opportunity to put this right for the online version which will be the most publicly available version of the Book and the official record lodged with the BP Archive and available to future researchers will ensure the correct title. The online version I understand will go live shortly after the official Centenary date of April 30.

Inevitably there will be a few errors of commission and omission in a book covering 100 years with 90,000 words, 600 archive pictures, tens of thousands of people who worked for the company and up to 1000 vessels of all shapes and sizes. We have taken great care in its compilation but inevitably a few things will slip the net.

My apologies for such a long post but I hope this is helpful background to the book and its origins. As a story and a record of the very fine achievements and service of everyone associated with the company, I hope you really enjoy it - and are generous in judging its overall merit.

Finally, I know everyone associated with the Centenary project sends Nina their very best in her recovery from her recent serious ill-health.

Best regards

Colum Doyle
Lead Writer & Editor
'Riding the Waves'
Thank you for the note on the book but it still does not explain how you got the wrong picture of a ship surely this should have been spotted in the proof reading of the book. If you look closely at the argosy picture in the book depepicting a 1966 vessel with the write up The picture shows there is enclosed lifeboats fitted now generally in my experience these were not fitted on vessels until very much later.
This is why I thought it was incorrect.
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  #5  
Old 4th April 2015, 11:15
Cwatcher Cwatcher is offline  
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Colm,
Thank you very much for your explanation. In a book of 90,000 words, errors are bound to happen & can easily slip through the 'proof reader' net. Even Bill Harvey & Ray Solly's excellent tome had a couple of mistakes but it is an excellent reference tool, as are Norman Middlemiss's three editions of The British Tankers.
I have down loaded the App but - to be honest - I was a bit underwhelmed by it. I would much rather get my hands on the book. I was not lucky enough to have received an invitation to the Centenary so was not a recipient of the retiring bag of 'goodies.'
Do you have any idea of the size of the print run or whether ex-employees who registered an expression of interest on the BP Shipping website will receive - or be able to purchase - a copy?
I will obviously look on line when the book goes 'live' after April 30th but there is no substitute for a hard copy!
Many thanks , once again, for giving us the background to the book.
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Old 6th April 2015, 11:15
ColumDoyle ColumDoyle is offline
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Dear CW,

thank you for kind note. I should also have explained that the 'App' was devised by the Centenary Team to be aimed at those who might only wish to 'dip' into the 100 years story and get a sense of the highlights of BP Shipping over the years rather than commit to reading the whole book. It was also a way to communicate the story effectively to the 80,000 BP employees around the world. For those who have a deeper interest like yourself then the film and the book offer the fuller story.

I am sorry to hear that you didn't manage to qualify for one of the invitations to the centenary lunch/dinners. I understand the sheer weight of numbers driven by length of service was the limiting factor - and that has applied to limitations on the issue of the book.

The book was not set up to be a commercial project with a large print run for wide distribution or availability to purchase from normal sources. I understand, from a note that the BPS CEO John Ridgway issued recently, that to meet the wider demand, the online version would be made available for reading or download for self printing/publishing. I appreciate that to have a hard copy of the bound book is preferable as a memento/keepsake - although for some, the readability and visual impact of the imagery of the book on a PC screen version may prove an equally enjoyable experience.

Once the Centenary events are completed at the end of this month, I understand that BP Shipping will be in a position to know what - if any- hard copies of the book remain for distribution and will issue information on that and the launch of the online version.

I'm sorry not to be more helpful at this point.

best wishes

Colum
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  #7  
Old 6th April 2015, 18:06
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ninabaker ninabaker is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColumDoyle View Post
Hi everyone,

As the third party who was commissioned by BP Shipping to help research, write, and edit the Centenary Book 'Riding the Waves', I thought it might be helpful if I explained some background to how the Book, Film, App and Exhibition came about.

It's worth starting by acknowledging the excellent work of Bill Harvey and Ray

We were inundated with contributions from those who sailed with the fleet - from many roles and ranks. A number were extremely generous with their time including Nina Baker - who made the journey to London for us to participate in some filming - as well as sharing her recollections with one of our journalists conducting interviews by phone. The last thing I want is for the Book to detract from her remarkable achievement in succeeding as a female cadet in the early 70s. The 'engineering cadet' heading error arose simply because of Nina's 40 year track record in the engineering field after she came ashore. For the many people who read the subsequent copy before publication - seafarers, shore staff, editorial team - her engineering achievements in the story led all to believe that the heading to the story of 'engineering cadet' was correct and appropriate. It was one of those things - very annoying and frustrating for all and not least for Nina who as she has posted also missed the error when correcting and approving the article. We now have the opportunity to put this right for the online version which will be the most publicly available version of the Book and the official record lodged with the BP Archive and available to future researchers will ensure the correct title. The online version I understand will go live shortly after the official Centenary date of April 30.

Inevitably there will be a few errors of commission and omission in a book covering 100 years with 90,000 words, 600 archive pictures, tens of thousands of people who worked for the company and up to 1000 vessels of all shapes and sizes. We have taken great care in its compilation but inevitably a few things will slip the net.

My apologies for such a long post but I hope this is helpful background to the book and its origins. As a story and a record of the very fine achievements and service of everyone associated with the company, I hope you really enjoy it - and are generous in judging its overall merit.

Finally, I know everyone associated with the Centenary project sends Nina their very best in her recovery from her recent serious ill-health.

Best regards

Colum Doyle
Lead Writer & Editor
'Riding the Waves'
Colum,
Thanks for the reassurance about corrections. I remain MORTIFIED with myself for so stupidly missing the headline when reading the draft. Talk about shooting myself in the foot.
Did you ever get any hint as to who might actually have been the first female engineering cadet?

The book is beautiful and will be a family treasure here.
regards
nina
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Old 6th April 2015, 19:19
ColumDoyle ColumDoyle is offline
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Hi Nina,

If it's any comfort, I'm kicking myself too - I now understand the phrase 'not seeing the wood for the trees'. We haven't identified the first female engineering cadet but publicity around the Centenary and the availability of the book to a worldwide audience online may see someone step forward.

Hope you are on the mend and look forward to seeing you soon

best wishes

Colum
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Old 6th April 2015, 21:00
Cwatcher Cwatcher is offline  
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Originally Posted by ColumDoyle View Post
Dear CW,

thank you for kind note. I should also have explained that the 'App' was devised by the Centenary Team to be aimed at those who might only wish to 'dip' into the 100 years story and get a sense of the highlights of BP Shipping over the years rather than commit to reading the whole book. It was also a way to communicate the story effectively to the 80,000 BP employees around the world. For those who have a deeper interest like yourself then the film and the book offer the fuller story.

I am sorry to hear that you didn't manage to qualify for one of the invitations to the centenary lunch/dinners. I understand the sheer weight of numbers driven by length of service was the limiting factor - and that has applied to limitations on the issue of the book.

The book was not set up to be a commercial project with a large print run for wide distribution or availability to purchase from normal sources. I understand, from a note that the BPS CEO John Ridgway issued recently, that to meet the wider demand, the online version would be made available for reading or download for self printing/publishing. I appreciate that to have a hard copy of the bound book is preferable as a memento/keepsake - although for some, the readability and visual impact of the imagery of the book on a PC screen version may prove an equally enjoyable experience.

Once the Centenary events are completed at the end of this month, I understand that BP Shipping will be in a position to know what - if any- hard copies of the book remain for distribution and will issue information on that and the launch of the online version.

I'm sorry not to be more helpful at this point.

best wishes

Colum
Many thanks Colum. We'll see what happens at the end of the month.
Kind regards,
John.
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Old 6th April 2015, 23:41
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Originally Posted by ColumDoyle View Post
Hi Nina,

If it's any comfort, I'm kicking myself too - I now understand the phrase 'not seeing the wood for the trees'. We haven't identified the first female engineering cadet but publicity around the Centenary and the availability of the book to a worldwide audience online may see someone step forward.

Hope you are on the mend and look forward to seeing you soon

best wishes

Colum
Colum,
That is most graceful of you, thanks. And thanks for the kind wishes. I am optimistic that I will be at the event at the end of the month.
regards
nina
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Old 7th April 2015, 16:13
Graham Wallace Graham Wallace is offline  
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Originally Posted by ColumDoyle View Post
Hi Nina,

If it's any comfort, I'm kicking myself too - I now understand the phrase 'not seeing the wood for the trees'. We haven't identified the first female engineering cadet but publicity around the Centenary and the availability of the book to a worldwide audience online may see someone step forward.

Hope you are on the mend and look forward to seeing you soon

best wishes

Colum
Colum/ Nina

I have a listing for 11 female Engineering Cadets and have some appearing in 1994 Fleet fax crew lists as J/E and 4E. This would possible indicate they were late 1980's intake. I have never been in touch with any of them though close to connecting with one, she was BP 2E in very early 2000's. Now an Engineering Superintendent

I have no precise clue as to when BP initiated female Engineering Cadets. Things have changed a lot since I was an Engineering Apprentice, In 1984 the duration of the 'Cadetship ' was reduced to 3 years, possibly this was when females were introduced.

I know of only one who sailed as an EC, she was a combined Deck and Engineering Cadet on the Resolution in 1992.

The remaining 10 were through their time into JE positions , before I found any sign of them, so can only speculate.

I'm waiting for the breakthrough, just one of them to reply.

Graham
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Old 7th April 2015, 17:02
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Colum/ Nina

I have a listing for 11 female Engineering Cadets and have some appearing in 1994 Fleet fax crew lists as J/E and 4E. This would possible indicate they were late 1980's intake. I have never been in touch with any of them though close to connecting with one, she was BP 2E in very early 2000's. Now an Engineering Superintendent

I have no precise clue as to when BP initiated female Engineering Cadets. Things have changed a lot since I was an Engineering Apprentice, In 1984 the duration of the 'Cadetship ' was reduced to 3 years, possibly this was when females were introduced.

I know of only one who sailed as an EC, she was a combined Deck and Engineering Cadet on the Resolution in 1992.

The remaining 10 were through their time into JE positions , before I found any sign of them, so can only speculate.

I'm waiting for the breakthrough, just one of them to reply.

Graham
Isnt it interesting how difficult this information has proved to uncover? I have emailed Jo Stanley to ask if she knows who was next after Victoria Drummond. I suppose the BoT/DTI must know who they issued qualifications to. I wonder how one could find out from them?

Nina
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Old 7th April 2015, 18:35
Graham Wallace Graham Wallace is offline  
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Isnt it interesting how difficult this information has proved to uncover? I have emailed Jo Stanley to ask if she knows who was next after Victoria Drummond. I suppose the BoT/DTI must know who they issued qualifications to. I wonder how one could find out from them?

Nina
Nina,

That's way beyond where I want to go. However years ago I was told that BP had a register in Head Office of NA's presumably NC's as well and this guy knew his number on the list. I have never heard of it since and have been intending to follow up and find if it is still in existance.

I have never heard of their being a similar one for EA's/EC's. Many of my EA intakes came from old Apprentices Newsletters 1955 onwards.

Graham
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Old 7th April 2015, 19:50
Chris Coxhead Chris Coxhead is offline  
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It is a shame the mistake was made but at least we are lucky enough to be part of the history.
Hope you are recovering well Nina
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Old 8th April 2015, 17:20
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Hi Graham/Nina,

as Graham has found, the records in this respect are patchy and the BP Archive newsletters have proven the best sources. One of BPTC's retired personnel staff has advised that to his knowledge no female engineering cadet was taken on up to 1978 - so the first appears to be a later period.

regards

Colum
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Old 8th April 2015, 19:42
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There were also none recruited in 1979- 1980, as I was seconded to recruitment branch that year, and was the one reading engineer cadet application forms and inviting for interview.
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Old 8th April 2015, 20:37
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I went googling to see what I could find about female engineering cadets more generally and found this PhD: http://www.sirc.cf.ac.uk/uploads/publications/Elizabeth%20Gould%20PhD%20Thesis.pdf

It is most the results of a survey about people's experiences as cadets but now that I have found th research centre from which it originates I am going to ask them if they know who was the first in the UK after Victoria Drummond.

They have a whole list of other research reports on women at sea too.

nina

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Old 8th April 2015, 22:19
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Right....... I give up. What's the App called and where do I find it... ? checked out the Kindle app store no joy though
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Old 9th April 2015, 07:54
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Right....... I give up. What's the App called and where do I find it... ? checked out the Kindle app store no joy though
Riding The Waves - Google App Store/iTunes - FREE!

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/ridi...957305627?mt=8
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Old 5th May 2015, 16:12
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Centenary Book - Riding the Waves - Now Online

The Centenary Book - 'Riding the Waves' - is now available to read or download online from the BP Shipping website without charge.

here is the link.

http://www.bp.com/en/global/bp-shipp...r-history.html

For those who have not had opportunity to see the print version, I hope you enjoy it.

regards

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  #21  
Old 5th May 2015, 21:41
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Duncan112 Duncan112 is offline  
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Just had a bit of a dig on the internet and it looks like, if we could get 50 or so people interested in a privately printed run the books would run in at £15 - 20 each plus P&P.

Any thoughts?
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  #22  
Old 7th May 2015, 22:22
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I'd go in.
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  #23  
Old 8th May 2015, 15:27
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No copyright problems?
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  #24  
Old 8th May 2015, 18:01
beverlonian beverlonian is offline  
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Yes, I would be up for this.
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  #25  
Old 8th May 2015, 20:11
retfordmackem retfordmackem is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan112 View Post
Just had a bit of a dig on the internet and it looks like, if we could get 50 or so people interested in a privately printed run the books would run in at £15 - 20 each plus P&P.

Any thoughts?
Put me on ths list Duncan please.
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