Radio Officers' Uniform Braid - Ships Nostalgia
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Radio Officers' Uniform Braid

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  #1  
Old 13th September 2011, 18:19
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Ron Stringer Ron Stringer is offline
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Radio Officers' Uniform Braid

Some time ago I was asked when the change took place from 'wavy line' braid to straight braid on a green mounting. I looked for a leaflet that Marconi Marine produced, but of course couldn't find it.

Today I was looking for something else entirely and what dropped out of an old 'Marconi Mariner' house magazine? Yes the leaflet with the new braid arrangements. The document was issued with the Jan-Feb 1964 issue of the magazine but it gives no implementation date for the change.

I have posted 3 scanned pictures of the 3 pages of the leaflet in the Marine Radio, Navaids and Electronics section of the Gallery.
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  #2  
Old 13th September 2011, 19:09
Shipbuilder Shipbuilder is offline
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Ron,
Yes, it was in 1964. I remember still having the zig zags and when the new straight ones with green backing came in, I saw that not having had 3 years on articles, I should really have gone down to one with diamond, so ignored the order! Kept my jacket in the wardrobe when in UK in case it was spotted by the shore staff (AEI). Looking back, I doubt they would have cared anyway! Shortly after, I got the three years in and had it changed to two straight ones with diamond between whilst on leave. Anyway, Marconi took us over, so I never went back, but joined B & C and had to take off my two straights and diamond, never having worn them at all! Went immediately to two straight and a curl in the top one. However, after three or four months in RICHMOND CASTLE (Fast Fruit Freighter, 1944 vintage) I was put in TRANSVAAL CASTLE as 4th (after 4 years at sea) and had to take off the two new ones and go down to half stripe! Not that I minded all that much. No more accounts to do - no more fixing radars, or being required off watch for a million other tasks, or anything else for that matter. Just kept a watch and then enjoyed the unacustomed 8 hours off! Was three years before I even made it to 3rd and got one full stripe again! Oh what happy years.
Bob
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  #3  
Old 13th September 2011, 21:33
briangdav briangdav is offline  
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Strait Braid

Joined Marconi Marine in July 1966 and strait braid was in use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stringer View Post
Some time ago I was asked when the change took place from 'wavy line' braid to straight braid on a green mounting. I looked for a leaflet that Marconi Marine produced, but of course couldn't find it.

Today I was looking for something else entirely and what dropped out of an old 'Marconi Mariner' house magazine? Yes the leaflet with the new braid arrangements. The document was issued with the Jan-Feb 1964 issue of the magazine but it gives no implementation date for the change.

I have posted 3 scanned pictures of the 3 pages of the leaflet in the Marine Radio, Navaids and Electronics section of the Gallery.
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  #4  
Old 13th September 2011, 22:30
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Interesting.

Did you know that the diamond actually meant that you had a "board of trade" qualification - i.e. a certificate.

So, in theory, Marconi was wrong (shock, horror!) using the diamond as a rank device.

All R/O's should have had the diamond, with the amount of stripes denoting the 'rank'.

I know some companies (P and O, etc) didn't use the diamond.

Some used the naval executive curl, and some (the RFA) used the diamond above the stripes in a similar way to the navy.
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  #5  
Old 14th September 2011, 08:16
ian fears ian fears is offline  
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I thought the diamond meant you were in charge of the station pretty sure it did in the late sixties early seventies , but been wrong before !lol
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  #6  
Old 14th September 2011, 10:07
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We always wore the diamond in Australia, as did the mates and engineers.

The 5th engineers with only "Part A" (seconds ticket) normally wore half a diamond.
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  #7  
Old 14th September 2011, 12:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troppo View Post
Interesting.

Did you know that the diamond actually meant that you had a "board of trade" qualification - i.e. a certificate.

So, in theory, Marconi was wrong (shock, horror!) using the diamond as a rank device.

All R/O's should have had the diamond, with the amount of stripes denoting the 'rank'.

I know some companies (P and O, etc) didn't use the diamond.

Some used the naval executive curl, and some (the RFA) used the diamond above the stripes in a similar way to the navy.
I have to agree. Marconi as a Radio Company did not always comply with current MN braid standards. I always understood the diamond stood for being certificated, which is why many junior engineers did not have diamonds until they got their 2/E certs. The number of stripes denoted time served, so most direct emply R/O's on H8 ships, wore one or two stripes. On H24 ships, the senior R/O wore three stripes to denote his position. Most 3rd mates held 2/O certs so wore the diamond on a single stripe. The Deck officers always wore the number of stripes to denote their rank. Some of the masters I sailed with wore extra wide braid so their braid went nearly to the elbow!!
Many companies had exceptions to the standard braid, ie P&O as already mentioned. I believe the strait braid on a green background for R/O's was already in being before Marconi changed over to it some time in the mid 60's

Best Wishes

Alan
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  #8  
Old 14th September 2011, 12:41
Bill Greig Bill Greig is offline  
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Hello All,
P & O as Junior R/O you had one stripe with green edge, R/O two stripes with green in the middle, senior R/O two and a half stripes. Nobody had any diamonds as we all wore epaulettes. Electricians also had the green edging.
On a recent cruise with Royal Carribbean, I was in a lift with one of the officers who's name badge informed me he was Electrical Officer but had no green edging. When I remarked on this he looked at me as if I was some sort of dinosaur and said "only Environmental Officer has green colour on his sleeve"
Regards
Bill
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  #9  
Old 15th September 2011, 11:37
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I have found a couple of old photos, which would seem to show the change from wavy to straight was 1963-4,

Left is March '63 when I bought my uniform before my first trip. Right is June 64' after my radar ticket. The green doesn't show very well though. I got as far as one and a half stripes.
David
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  #10  
Old 15th September 2011, 16:11
sparkie2182 sparkie2182 is offline  
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I believe the wavy's occasionally got confused with the Ch. Stewards zig-zags..........

If you know what i mean.

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  #11  
Old 20th April 2012, 10:05
victormacmeldrew victormacmeldrew is offline  
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Radio Officer Rank insignia

I just saw this and maybe I could help the discussion, if I am duplicating information, forgive me and put it down to age as I haven't checked the thread thoroughly. The first link shows the new braid and the regs on it and the second shows the first set of braid.

I always thought that Marconi were naughty using the diamond as rank distinction but they did it on both occasions.

http://www.radioofficers.com/forum

http://shw.zulfaag.fotopages.com/136...rld-war-2.html

I found a better photo of the straight braid without the water damage in the middle but I'm at a loss as to where it is now.
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  #12  
Old 20th April 2012, 17:07
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I remember a poster at either Liverpool MimCo depot or Liverpool federation giving the BOT (ie not company) uniform standards - a copy of that would be fun to find. Having said that I don't remember what was on it but I do remember the custom should have been - number of rings - according to years operating. Diamond - only for R/O in charge. Most ignored the in-charge bit and some the years operating. If I remember correctly I wore my one ring and diamond until I had three years in.

Last edited by Varley; 21st April 2012 at 09:58..
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  #13  
Old 20th April 2012, 19:20
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Looking at my post #9 above, I don't remember being told of any regs at the outfitters. However, if you are the only RO on board then I suppose in theory you are 'in charge' !

David
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  #14  
Old 21st April 2012, 12:15
trotterdotpom trotterdotpom is offline  
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My first uniform had a single ring with a diamond - Greenbergs had a list with it all on. I understood that the diamond meant you had a ticket - nothing to dfo with being in charge. I thought I got two rings after two years, but not sure about that. Waste of money anyway, hardly ever wore a uniform, just carted it about.

John T
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  #15  
Old 22nd April 2012, 02:11
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1 ring when I was a juniour, 2 after that.
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  #16  
Old 22nd April 2012, 06:05
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Patagualino Patagualino is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Greig View Post
Hello All,
P & O as Junior R/O you had one stripe with green edge, R/O two stripes with green in the middle, senior R/O two and a half stripes. Nobody had any diamonds as we all wore epaulettes. Electricians also had the green edging.
On a recent cruise with Royal Carribbean, I was in a lift with one of the officers who's name badge informed me he was Electrical Officer but had no green edging. When I remarked on this he looked at me as if I was some sort of dinosaur and said "only Environmental Officer has green colour on his sleeve"
Regards
Bill
Dear oh dear......Now green is " Environmental Officer"
Maybe we should stay away from such cruises.....us being dinosaurs and all!.....would not want to upset the status-quo in the officers "mess". ..or..."Brew Room"
And that is what we have become: Glorified bus drivers.

Is it really so easy to move people & millions of $$$$ cargoes so cheaply, using cheap, slave-like labour?

Yes. Yes is the answer. We have moved on so little since Wilberforce. The crews of today are little better than the slaves of "old".
Do some digging on the WWW.....it's as clear as the history books tell us.

You want stuff from China.?... it will arrive as cheap as possible ......

As long as you don't care.......it will always be so.

Doubt this will be posted. Frankly.

But Cheers you all.
Steve.
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  #17  
Old 22nd April 2012, 11:26
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Dug them out from the bottom of a drawer
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  #18  
Old 22nd April 2012, 11:42
trotterdotpom trotterdotpom is offline  
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Dug them out from the bottom of a drawer
A bit gaudy, Mike. Up in Stottycake Land they'd make a pair of slippers out of them.

John T
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  #19  
Old 22nd April 2012, 12:43
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Always thought they were a bit bright, sort of like an overdone Argentinians generals braid
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  #20  
Old 25th April 2012, 14:10
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I was told that it was one ring plus diamond (because you were qualified & certificated) (or certified?) for the first three years, ie, "Junior". Then 2 rings for the next 12 years, at which point you were considered senior enough to have three.
I did 17 in total, but never bothered upgrading my uniform, as remarked by MikeG, a bit OTT for my taste! (And no inclination to 'invade' the Falklands!!!)
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  #21  
Old 26th April 2012, 09:57
Bob Murdoch Bob Murdoch is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R651400 View Post
My recollection BOT circa 1956...one ring for 3rd, two rings 2nd and two rings with central diamond 1st R/O..
In my day, 1958-1962, this was the usual in Marconi. When I went to N.Z,'s Union Company, everyone wore two wavy and a diamond, in fact that was actually issued by the company along with a set of buttons, epaulets and a company cap badge. Of course most of the Union Co r.o.s were ex-UK at that time, so just used the BOT standard they had before arriving in NZ
Dont like the photograph of the 'new' one. Gaudy is the word.
Cheers Bob
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  #22  
Old 26th April 2012, 10:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patagualino View Post
Dear oh dear......Now green is [I]" Environmental Officer"
Steve.

I believe green is still the correct colour for electrical officers and the envrionmental people wear a bright blue

Certainly this is the case with Holland America Line and Saga Shipping.

Stephen
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  #23  
Old 26th April 2012, 10:28
macrae macrae is offline  
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I still have my M.N. wavey double line gold braid uniform jacket in a wardrobe,a bit sad really,it's been for there now for over 40 years.
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Old 26th April 2012, 11:05
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I still have my M.N. wavey double line gold braid uniform jacket in a wardrobe,a bit sad really,it's been for there now for over 40 years.
An' it don't seem a day too much. (Couldn't resist it)
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  #25  
Old 26th April 2012, 11:33
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and the envrionmental people wear a bright blue

Pardon my ignorance, but what is an "environmental officer"??
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