Hain-Nourse livery - Ships Nostalgia
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Hain-Nourse livery

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  #1  
Old 3rd August 2019, 04:00
John Clarke John Clarke is offline  
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Hain-Nourse livery

I'm commissioning a painting of a Hain-Nourse tramp Trevaylor for a colleague who is about to retire. It was his first ship. He would have been on her around 1965-1968 as he was a Hain Nourse apprentice and is 72 now.

Apologies if this isn't the right part of the forum to ask this question, I'm not on here often.

I have looked online and found good pictures in black and white with a few in colour. However I want it to be right. I'm guessing it was dark blue hull with red-lead colour boot topping, white accomodation/buff derricks and masts. Funnel dark blue with conjoined white HN. No stripes or other details on hull.

Some images of the funnel make it look like it has a small black band around the top... but I can't be certain.

Any advice gratefully received.
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  #2  
Old 3rd August 2019, 05:23
tugger tugger is offline  
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HI John.
I was on the Trevose for two years from 4/7/49 to16/3/51the hull coulor was black a white band and Red Boot topping the funnel was black with a large white H on both sides. Picture of Trevose taken going up to Adelaide
Cheers Des
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File Type: jpg Trevose Adelaide.jpg (56.7 KB, 38 views)
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  #3  
Old 3rd August 2019, 06:52
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Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is offline  
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John,

I believe the livery changed at some point. I remember the blue funnel and the white combined letter as 'HN' and the hull was a dark grey. Can you wait for a day or so? I'll get back to you.

Do you have an artist in mind? I know a couple of marine artists in Australia if you are looking.

Stephen
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  #4  
Old 3rd August 2019, 07:15
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Here are a few photos showing TREVAYLOR is the HN livery.

I think the grey hull was used on one of the bulkers... ignore this for TREVAYLOR.

Yes, the funnel had the combined letters HN on the funnel, but oddly on this photo the HN is missing! Could have been for man reasons... buying, selling or chartering. Anyhow, I think you would be fine using the HN on the funnel.

The shade of blue? Probably the standard 'blue' that all of the P&O ships were using. If your artist does his good research he would be able to find lots of colour references on this blue. ie… look for P&O STATH boats in the 1970s. Even ShipsNostalgia would lave lots of photos of STRATH boats. The last photo of KOHINUR looks right for the colour.


Stephen
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File Type: jpg TRAYVAYLOR.jpg (220.7 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg s-l1600 TRECARNE.jpg (95.1 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg Trecarrell.jpg (196.3 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg Trevalgan.jpg (275.0 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg KOHINUR.jpg (125.0 KB, 28 views)
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  #5  
Old 3rd August 2019, 07:32
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TREVAYLOR

Here are two photos of the vessel. One shows with the plain blue funnel and the other photo shows with the HN on the funnel.

Would be safe to say the HN logo was used on the funnel.

Stephen
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File Type: jpg 2659118 TREVAYLOR.jpg (232.3 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg TREYVAYLOR 2.jpg (105.3 KB, 14 views)
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  #6  
Old 3rd August 2019, 08:47
Pilot mac Pilot mac is offline  
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Hi John,
I was an Apprentice with Hain-Nourse slightly later than your colleague. Hain-Nourse was formed in 1964 and consisted of the merged fleets of Hain, Nourse and Asiatic. 'Trevaylor' was a Hain ship and would have had a Black hull prior to 1964. At some point after the merger the hull colour was changed to 'Hain-Nourse Blue'. Stephen's image of the Kohinur (my first ship)shows the colour as close as I can remember (the dark area not the faded bit!)

regards
Dave
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  #7  
Old 3rd August 2019, 12:15
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Dave,

Thanks. I see three colours on the hull of KOHINUR as 'deep blue', faded blue' and 'red lead'!!! :-)

Comparing to SRATH boats of P&O.... I don't the funnel blue is the same as HN blue. P&O blue is several shades lighter. I was assuming the blue came from the combined P&O & HN, but that would not necessarily be true.

Dave, did TREVAYLOR have any sisterships… as in 'identical' design ships? I have list of four ships that might be, depending on date of build and tonnage.... TRECARREL, TREMEDOW, TREMORVAH and TREWIDDEN.

Stephen

Last edited by Stephen J. Card; 3rd August 2019 at 12:22..
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  #8  
Old 3rd August 2019, 12:50
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Corrections:

TREVALOUR, TRECARREL, TREMEADOW & TREMORVAH were sisters. TREWIDDEN was not. Add one extra. TRECARNE.

Got lost with the photos. The ship were rebuilt at some point and given a raised Fo'c'sle. Not sure TREMORVAH if had her raised Fo'c'sle.

Stephen
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  #9  
Old 3rd August 2019, 22:33
John Clarke John Clarke is offline  
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That's fantastic thanks Stephen. Those pics very helpful. I have an artist who has done a few for me in the past (other retirements). It makes a nice personal gift (better than a set of golf clubs I think). But please let me know your artists as I would like to take a look at their work.
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  #10  
Old 3rd August 2019, 22:39
John Clarke John Clarke is offline  
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Thanks Pilot mac. I'm going to have to take a punt on the hull colour. I think he would have joined his first ship in 1965 or 1966 (he is 70 now) so it would be quite likely to have been either black or blue.
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  #11  
Old 3rd August 2019, 22:43
John Clarke John Clarke is offline  
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Another comment. At some point during her Hain management it looks like Trevaylor might have had focsle bulwarks rater than railings. This image is the only one I can find with bulkwarks whereas all images under HN livery show railings.

Anyone have any thoughts on that?
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File Type: jpg TREVAYLOR.jpg (68.2 KB, 20 views)
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  #12  
Old 3rd August 2019, 23:01
Laurie Ridyard Laurie Ridyard is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
Corrections:

TREVALOUR, TRECARREL, TREMEADOW & TREMORVAH were sisters. TREWIDDEN was not. Add one extra. TRECARNE.

Got lost with the photos. The ship were rebuilt at some point and given a raised Fo'c'sle. Not sure TREMORVAH if had her raised Fo'c'sle.

Stephen
The , " Tremayne " and " Tremorvah " built C 1952 -4 were not sisters to the " Tremeadow " " Trevaylor " , " Trecarrel " and " Trecarne ", all built C 1958 - 9. The latter ships had air conditioning.

ATB

Laurie.
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  #13  
Old 4th August 2019, 10:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurie Ridyard View Post
The , " Tremayne " and " Tremorvah " built C 1952 -4 were not sisters to the " Tremeadow " " Trevaylor " , " Trecarrel " and " Trecarne ", all built C 1958 - 9. The latter ships had air conditioning.

ATB

Laurie.
Thanks Laurie,

For the purpose of a painting... the air con would not matter. :-)

The first pair, 1952 and 1954 have a GRT of 5,608 and 5,605. The later from the late 50s were all in the 6,500 GRT. That is what I am looking at. Photos of all six seem to have the same likeness. Not enough information to tell them apart, but 900 tonnes extra must show up somewhere. I'll have to start on LOA/beam etc.

The other change is the adding of a raised fo'c'sle. No dates on those changes.

Stephen
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  #14  
Old 4th August 2019, 10:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clarke View Post
Another comment. At some point during her Hain management it looks like Trevaylor might have had focsle bulwarks rater than railings. This image is the only one I can find with bulkwarks whereas all images under HN livery show railings.

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

John,

As built the ship were flushed deck vessels. Open railings along the main deck with solid bulwarks around the foredeck. (see on the trials photo). At some point, the ships were given a full raised fo'c'sle. The windlass etc were all one deck higher and the railings around the foc's'le were open railing, apart from the very stem.

Stephen
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  #15  
Old 4th August 2019, 10:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clarke View Post
Thanks Pilot mac. I'm going to have to take a punt on the hull colour. I think he would have joined his first ship in 1965 or 1966 (he is 70 now) so it would be quite likely to have been either black or blue.

The Hain and Nourse companies were 'established' in 1964 under P&O and the company was renamed Hain-Nourse in 1965. I would think the ships would be repainted quite quickly. If he joined in 1966.... chances of blue hull would be 100%.

Stephen
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File Type: jpg 2659118 TREVAYLOR.jpg (232.3 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by Stephen J. Card; 4th August 2019 at 10:27..
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  #16  
Old 4th August 2019, 11:24
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John,

A bit more information.

Here are a few photos of the ships with raised fo'c'sle and definitely before 1965... on photo of TREMEDOW showing as early as 1963.

One colour photo of TRECARRELL. Note the white hull stripe was done lots earlier than 1963. Having your ship painted 'as built' with full Hain livery and without the raised foc's'le is zero. It was definitely done before 1963.

Last photo, TREMEDOW c. 1972. Hull painted black (not blue), funnel is blue, (not Hain-Nourse blue) and with the P&O logo on the funnel. Looks like it was put out without any thought and without staging to put it higher on the funnel!!!!

Lastly. TRECARRELL colour photo. Note the colour of the masts. In Hain colours it was a dark brown/buff. In Hain-Nourse livery, the masts were a pale yellow buff. It shows up in B&W photos as well.

Australian artists, I would go for Ian Hansen, excellent. Also two others, Don Braben and Stan Stafaniak… all ASMA. Don Braben might do the best as far as doing a 'cargo ship'. Stan does mostly passenger ship.

Stephen
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TREMEDOW Hain colours.jpg (91.1 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg z-M TRECARRELL HAIN.jpg (66.3 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 2495621 TRECARRELL HAIN.jpg (122.8 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 2020854 TREMEADOW.jpg (203.1 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by Stephen J. Card; 4th August 2019 at 11:28..
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  #17  
Old 4th August 2019, 11:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clarke View Post
That's fantastic thanks Stephen. Those pics very helpful. I have an artist who has done a few for me in the past (other retirements). It makes a nice personal gift (better than a set of golf clubs I think). But please let me know your artists as I would like to take a look at their work.

Quite right. A good painting is perfect personal gift.... especially if it a ship!

Who is your artist? Can you show one of his works? Thanks. Probably one the best collections of marine paintings is probably right here on Ships Nostalgia. Of course! :-)


Stephen
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  #18  
Old 4th August 2019, 23:25
Laurie Ridyard Laurie Ridyard is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
Thanks Laurie,

For the purpose of a painting... the air con would not matter. :-)

The first pair, 1952 and 1954 have a GRT of 5,608 and 5,605. The later from the late 50s were all in the 6,500 GRT. That is what I am looking at. Photos of all six seem to have the same likeness. Not enough information to tell them apart, but 900 tonnes extra must show up somewhere. I'll have to start on LOA/beam etc.

The other change is the adding of a raised fo'c'sle. No dates on those changes.

Stephen
The extra tonnage was due to the raised fo'c'sle, at which time ( C 1967/8 ) a bulbous bow of sorts was added. This was because of new rules , which meant the loaded draft was increased. I was on a tanker MT " Beechwood " at that time which had a similar alteration.

ATB

Laurie.
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  #19  
Old 5th August 2019, 00:50
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Hi Laurie,

Two of the photos above show the TRECARRELL with the raised Foc's'le and the ships shows in the original Hain livery so the alteration must have been done before the Hain-Nourse merger and that was 1964-1965. The ships of the late 50s did receive the raised fo'c'sle. I don't know when TREMORVAH and her sister, built early 50s... so did they have the work done as late as 1967?

The information on www on Clyde-built Ships seem to show their tonnages were done 'as built' and the early ships were 5,608 and the later ships were 6,504. I can see the fo'c'sle would definitely increase the GRT, but as much as 900 tons? If assume the length of the fo'c's'le as say 40' and width of the fo'c's'le of about 50' and say deck height 9 ft = 18,000 cu ft. Divide by 100 cu ft per ton gives a full volume of 180 tons. (that is not even allowing for the shape of the bow.) So, we still have to look where for 729 tons or 7,290 cub ft. Quite a lot of space.

I can see an increase in load draught for the extra DWT... and having the fo'c'sle and reducing the freeboard, but that doesn't change the GRT.

I have a book with all of this information on the P&O Fleet History. I won't be able to get to by Wednesday.

Stephen
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  #20  
Old 5th August 2019, 00:57
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Quote:
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. I was on a tanker MT " Beechwood " at that time which had a similar alteration.

ATB

Laurie.

Laurie,

BEECHWOOD was a tanker or an ore carrier?


I have a BEECHWOOD that was formerly Silver Line's BISHOPSGATE, sold to Greeks in 1975... she was an ore carrier.


Stephen
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  #21  
Old 5th August 2019, 01:15
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Laurie,

Apologies. Found another BEECHWOOD (4). Tanker. Left Jacobs about 1967 and the former BISHOPSGATE became BEECHWOOD (5).

Found photos of BEECHWOOD (3) and No. (5) but no number 4!

Good bit of information and fleet list for Jacobs.

Stephen
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  #22  
Old 5th August 2019, 01:22
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Laurie,

Here is the correct BEECHWOOD (4) lying alongside VIVIEN LOUISE (J&J Denholm) on the Fal. Possibly 1964 or earlier.

Stephen
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  #23  
Old 5th August 2019, 01:39
tugger tugger is offline  
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I left the UK in 1957 for the NZ coast so missed all the changes to Hain's. The newer hull colour looks great.
Tugger
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  #24  
Old 5th August 2019, 08:54
Laurie Ridyard Laurie Ridyard is offline  
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Beechwood

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Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
Laurie,

BEECHWOOD was a tanker or an ore carrier?


I have a BEECHWOOD that was formerly Silver Line's BISHOPSGATE, sold to Greeks in 1975... she was an ore carrier.


Stephen
I have two photos of MT " Beechwood ". In neither of them was she at anchor. Here is the one I have on my FB Page..... I did one trip on her.Lousy ship Piss Artiste of a Master. Useless Mate & 2/0. I suffered a nasty injury because of a faulty gangway and had to pack up going to sea eventually because of it


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

ATB

Laurie.
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  #25  
Old 5th August 2019, 09:24
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Laurie,

Thanks. Found your photos on FB. Good shots.

Why the heck did you go to tankers after Hains? Sorry about your injury on BEECHWOOD.

Stephen
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