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Lend-lease [what You Never Knew]

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  #26  
Old 28th June 2013, 16:53
E.Martin E.Martin is offline  
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Dear old England is not the same
We dreaded invasion and yet it came
No! its not the beastly Hun
The goldarn yankee Army come.

They moan about our luke warm beer
Drink beer like water over here
But after drinking 2 or more
You'll find them lying on the floor.

Most of us agree that without American aid world history would have been alot differant so it is a good job we let them win the war of Independence.
I have read that USA was the only country in the World that came out of WW2
showing a profit.
Also read that that American oil was getting to Germany through Spain.
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  #27  
Old 28th June 2013, 18:14
WilliamH WilliamH is offline  
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I fully agree that the Germans could not have been beaten without the help of the U.S.A in manpower, weapons and materials. However we should remember that Germany was researching nuclear weapons and were quite advanced in rocket technology, so if Britain had fallen, and then Iceland the U.S.A could have been vulnerable to rocket attacks. It was in America's interest that Britain survived.
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  #28  
Old 28th June 2013, 19:32
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein View Post
The interference consisted in the US not giving their support, something which Eden and MacMillan (stupidly some say) just assumed they would get from Eisenhower once the operation had started. On their own (with France and Israel) Britain had not the financial clout for such an adventure.

Even before the Suez incursion British reserves were below what could be considered safe. The Eden government knew that for the Pound-Dollar rate, and the cohesion of the Sterling area, to hold, they would need help from the IMF, and there the Americans held all the cards.
The main clincher was that the American Govt threatened to stop the Marshall Aid programme as far as I remember.
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  #29  
Old 29th June 2013, 02:47
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Samsette Samsette is offline  
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Marshall Aid

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadburn View Post
The main clincher was that the American Govt threatened to stop the Marshall Aid programme as far as I remember.
That is interesting. That Marshall was still being doled out in 1956, I mean.
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  #30  
Old 29th June 2013, 08:13
stein stein is online now  
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1950-1 was the final year of Britain's Marshall Aid. Little of it spent on reindustrialisation, but much on defense, on welfare, and on supporting the Pound? One of the most damaging conditions of Lend-Lease was the Dollar convertibility of Sterling (a not unnatural demand: banning the devaluation of the debtor... the PIIGS's problem of today).

Last edited by stein; 29th June 2013 at 08:53..
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  #31  
Old 29th June 2013, 17:52
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samsette View Post
That is interesting. That Marshall was still being doled out in 1956, I mean.
Yes, I got it wrong.
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  #32  
Old 29th June 2013, 18:09
kypros kypros is offline  
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I believe its only fair to point out that there was another price to pay for the MARSHAL AID PLAN that was Britain doing away with the IMPERIAL PRICE PREFERENCE system which excluded the US from trading with the BRITISH EMPIRE on price equality and opened almost a quarter of the world to US COMPANYS .KYPROS
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  #33  
Old 30th June 2013, 09:17
stein stein is online now  
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It was a free trade arrangement, and it was lost at Bretton Woods in 44:

Bretton Woods: Keynes' Fall of Singapore

…Keynes' … Bretton Woods performance was not merely a defeat, it was a historic disaster of the order of the Fall of Singapore two years earlier, in which Lieutenant-General Arthur Percival, in spite of having more men and better equipment than his Japanese attackers, surrendered supinely within a few weeks, in the largest capitulation in British history. Keynes' failure at Bretton Woods was equally unforgiveable, and for British long-term interests even more damaging…

A negotiator with Britain's true economic interests at heart would not have allowed chimerical new schemes of international finance to dominate the conference, but would have focused like a laser (or, there being no such thing then, like a Martian Heat-Ray) on Britain's three crucial interests: the preservation of Imperial Preference, the largest possible post-war loan, and permission for an immediate sterling devaluation similar to the 30% fall which became inevitable in 1949.

Imperial Preference had proved its value in the 1930s, in allowing a modest reciprocal arrangement against the still gigantic American tariffs, so that British manufacturers had a chance in Empire, Dominion and later Commonwealth markets of competing against U.S. products that had built huge efficiencies of scale behind their high tariff wall. Had that benign system continued in full force, being modified modestly as the various post-war free trade agreements were signed (none before the Kennedy Round of 1964-67 would have lowered tariffs enough to affect Imperial Preference), Britain would have had its own free-trade area that was well designed to balance its raw-material-poor manufacturing and service economy. Joining the European Economic Community would have been superfluous and indeed obviously economically counterproductive
.

http://www.prudentbear.com/2013/03/b...singapore.html
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  #34  
Old 30th June 2013, 11:04
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Hugh Ferguson Hugh Ferguson is offline  
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Fascinating! I certainly knew nothing of that debacle.
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  #35  
Old 30th June 2013, 11:38
stein stein is online now  
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I’ve got the book reviewed in above link, and it is not as condemning of Keynes as the review. The Americans were in a position to dictate the conditions, and however arrogantly better-knowing Keynes might have appeared to the Americans (led by a Soviet spy); it is mere conjecture that someone with more respectful manners, and less high flying ideas, would have done better. Britain did not “give at the doors” when they ruled the World, and the Americans when taking charge were correspondingly little concerned with the plight of the deposed, as China too will be.

I admit to finding it slightly unpleasant to read that Keynes consistently referred to the participants that were neither English nor American at the conference as “the monkeys” though…

Last edited by stein; 30th June 2013 at 12:05..
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  #36  
Old 19th October 2013, 23:10
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Rodney Rodney is offline  
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To Hugh Ferguson.

Hugh,

Many thanks for your post #23. I have just finished reading "See HERE" re. w.w.2 Tankers North Atlantic. A magnificent thread; I am indebted to you...I will commence reading "And HERE" tomorrow.

My comment on my post #22 bares no reflection to S.N. at all. I was comparing it to "another site" which is constantly yank bashing and denigrating other nationalities merchant seamen. This led me to believe the moderators must have been in agreement to allow such undocumented drivel a forum. Thus my remark on my #23 was intended as a compliment.

Once again thank you.

Rodney
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  #37  
Old 20th October 2013, 01:52
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ben27 ben27 is offline  
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good day cshortridge73.sm.25th june.00:14.re:lend lease{what you never knew}I have posted on this thread before#5.but readind your post again and members input I thought I woul mention an incident that happened at sea when the japs surrendered.we were in the pacific.after we heard and had a celebration of sorts the next day the captain called for volunteers to dump all equipment no longer needed over the side.when we query'd this we were told.what was lost in action did not have to be paid for.under lease lend.we dumped all our planes.fuel.and anything that was not bolted down.the other explanation was the less we took back the more jobs in industry.if you can believe it.when we got to Norfolk Virginia and handed our ship back to the usa.navy they stripped her bare,they said they were short of copper.and wanted the wiring,it was a long time ago.thanks for your interesting thread again.regards ben27
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  #38  
Old 20th October 2013, 11:26
kypros kypros is offline  
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RODNEY to me the most important political decision of the twentieth century was the American presidents to support Britain,this was taken with a lot of hostility in the US against it,the world as a lot to thank the President for.KYPROS
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  #39  
Old 20th October 2013, 16:25
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Hugh Ferguson Hugh Ferguson is offline  
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You will never be able to repay the Americans! The taking of Tarawa involved the greatest loss of life to the U.S. Marines in one action.
All returned to the British as was Hong Kong & Singapore. I would ask, how do you repay blood lost? .
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