Deck passengers - Ships Nostalgia
03:25

Welcome
Welcome!Welcome to Ships Nostalgia, the world's greatest online community for people worldwide with an interest in ships and shipping. Whether you are crew, ex-crew, ship enthusiasts or cruisers, this is the forum for you. And what's more, it's completely FREE.

Click here to go to the forums home page and find out more.
Click here to join.
Log in
User Name Password

Deck passengers

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 19th February 2019, 07:32
John Melbourne John Melbourne is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 6
Deck passengers

Hello,
When I sailed with China Nav in the 1950s, deck passengers were the norm on all their intra-Asian trades. That would have been the same with all the other companies trading out East. But I am not sure whether the likes of Blue Funnel or Ben Line would have taken any from say Hong Kong to Singapore.
I have now come across a passenger list of the Lycaon that carried deck passengers FROM Liverpool to Hong Kong in 1923.
Would anyone be able to confirm that was common?
Thanks
John
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 19th February 2019, 09:36
GW3OQK's Avatar
GW3OQK GW3OQK is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 118
John, if you look up SS Rajula you'll see she was built for carrying deck passengers, and quite a few stories about that. When I sailed on her in 1966-69 she only carried about 1200 on deck, with a total of 1800 passengers and crew. One of several in British India Steam Navigation Company, BI.
Andrew
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 19th February 2019, 10:28
John Melbourne John Melbourne is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 6
Thanks Andrew,
I have just finished reading about the Rajula. Great reading.
I have also just finished reading a history of Alfred Holt & Co.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr9J...gx7q2uxt3qRgU-

Hope the long URL works.

In the list of ships, two sister ships built in 1913 but before the Lycaon were the last to list accommodation for 200 in the tween deck. Later ships only showed 4 or 12 cabin passengers, which was what I had always assumed.
Cheers
John
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19th February 2019, 18:08
Alistair Macnab's Avatar
Alistair Macnab Alistair Macnab is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1953 - 1981
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,462
Deck Passengers on Bank Line ships...

Andrew Weir's Bank Line were very active in the carriage of Deck passengers during the first half of the 20th century. Starting in 1906 after some in-chartering voyages, two new ships were built in Glasgow, at Russell's, the "Tinhow" and the "Mineric" and the second-hand bought-in the "Salamis" in 1911 for the Indian African Line between Calcutta and Durban. The "Salamis" was an ex-Aberdeen Line emigrant carrier. The "Salamis" was first used on a Colombo-Singapore, Bangkok and Hong Kong connecting service for the Indian-African Line.

All three carried additional cabin passengers as well.

In 1912, the "Salamis" or the "Tinhow" was transferred to Weir's Oriental African Line to cater for Chinese deck passengers to Durban and Cape Town from Hong Kong. (No clear record of which was assigned).

Deck passengers from Calcutta and Hong Kong were indentured labour for the sugar plantations of Natal and northbound: returning labourers and repatriated ship's crews.

In 1913, three ex-Bucknall steamers from their London-South and Mozambique passenger/cargo service were bought, reconditioned, and placed on the Indian African Line as 1st and deck passenger ships and the Oriental African Line steadied around both the "Salamis" and "Tinhow".

Three motorships were ordered and delivered from Harland and Wolff in 1923, the "Luxmi", "Gujarat" and "Kathiawar" for the Indian African Line but when Bullard King's India-Natal Line was purchased from Union Castle in 1935, three excellent white motorships, the "Isipingo", "Inchanga" and "Incomati" had already been built by Workman Clark in Belfast in 1934 to replace the earlier motorships which were transferred to the Oriental African Line to replace the steamships on that service.

The 'White Ships' had accommodation for 500 deck passengers as well as 50 first class and 20 second class (berthed) passengers. They ran until 1964 being finally downgraded to 12 1st. class only. The "Incomati" and "Tinhow" were war casualties and the "Kathiawar" was wrecked on Goa Island Mozambique in 1937.

You can read all about Weir's passenger ship ventures in my new book "The Shipping Wizard of Kirkcaldy" now published in the United States and available through payment in your own currency by PayPal.
__________________


Alistair

Last edited by Alistair Macnab; 19th February 2019 at 18:13..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 19th February 2019, 19:04
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,268
RAJULA.

Her original Passenger Certificate was OVER 5,000!!!!!

"Passengers carried: 30 1st, 30 2nd, 92 3rd, 5113 (later 3622) deck."


Stephen
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 19th February 2019, 19:12
Pat Kennedy's Avatar
Pat Kennedy Pat Kennedy is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,849
In my time in Blue Flue, 50s and 60s, the only ships that carried deck passengers were the so called "Haj Boats". these were those ships carrying Muslim pilgrims from the Far East to Mecca. Otherwise I never saw or heard of any passengers on deck, although there were always one or two of the deck crowd who could be classed as passengers.
__________________
"Life is a waste of time, and time is a waste of life. Get wasted all the time, and you'll have the time of your life!"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19th February 2019, 19:52
holland25 holland25 is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Radio Officer
Active: 1956 - 1970
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Kennedy View Post
In my time in Blue Flue, 50s and 60s, the only ships that carried deck passengers were the so called "Haj Boats". these were those ships carrying Muslim pilgrims from the Far East to Mecca. Otherwise I never saw or heard of any passengers on deck, although there were always one or two of the deck crowd who could be classed as passengers.
I would agree with your statement, with the exception that I think the Hajis were actually carried in the holds, with dormitory type accommodation,probably similar to that on troopships.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 19th February 2019, 20:15
Pat Kennedy's Avatar
Pat Kennedy Pat Kennedy is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,849
Quote:
Originally Posted by holland25 View Post
I would agree with your statement, with the exception that I think the Hajis were actually carried in the holds, with dormitory type accommodation,probably similar to that on troopships.
They did however have well deck facilities on some of the "A" class and I have heard tales of them praying, cooking and washing on the foredeck on the Cyclops, for example.
But I never saw it first hand as there were no Hajis on board when I sailed in the Cyclops.
__________________
"Life is a waste of time, and time is a waste of life. Get wasted all the time, and you'll have the time of your life!"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 19th February 2019, 20:32
holland25 holland25 is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Radio Officer
Active: 1956 - 1970
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Kennedy View Post
They did however have well deck facilities on some of the "A" class and I have heard tales of them praying, cooking and washing on the foredeck on the Cyclops, for example.
But I never saw it first hand as there were no Hajis on board when I sailed in the Cyclops.
Quoting from Duncan and Hawes Blue Funnel LIne.
Clytoneus. 1948

The first vessel of the Mark A2 class of six ships which were built with tween deck accommodation The lifeboats were all doubled up for Far East pilgrims to Jeddah. They had a wood clad main deck port holes and extra ventilators in addition to sanitary and kitchen areas.

The lifeboats of this class were all doubled one atop the other.

I have no direct experience of this though I did go aboard the Tyndareus during one of her lay overs in Singapore and saw the set up there.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 19th February 2019, 20:57
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,268
Did anyone sail in the GUNUNG DJATI? Ex German PRETORIA b. 1936. Later EMPIRE DOON then EMPIRE ORWELL. Bought by Blue Funnel 1958 and later sold 1966.

Must have been Blue Funnel's largest passenger ship, 17,516 grt.

Stephen
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 20th February 2019, 00:49
IAN M's Avatar
IAN M IAN M is offline
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Radio Officer
Active: 1943 - 1951
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 661
Extracted from my book, BACK TO SEA.

We had taken on some Chinese deck passengers in Hong Kong and, after dinner one evening, I was standing with some engineers looking down onto the after well-deck when a Chinamen appeared below us in a frantic state. We had no idea what he was saying until smoke began to appear from the alleyway from which he had emerged. The immediate reaction of the engineers was that it had nothing to do with them! But I ran to inform the Mate. It transpired that our bunkers were again on fire, but it was quickly brought under control.

The ship in question was the 1911-built Atreus (GRPX). This happened in 1948, and I was her 1st radio officer/purser.
__________________
IAN M MALCOLM
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 20th February 2019, 01:20
John Melbourne John Melbourne is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 6
Thanks all,
Good to see I have got some discussion going on this.
The China Nav and Dutch RIL ships carried their deck passengers on the shelter deck. There are some clips of life aboard a RIL ship on YouTube, but I haven't got the link at hand just yet.
Pilgrim ships were just like troopships. I sailed on Anking just after she was replaced as a pilgrim ship by the Kuala Lumpur. I vaguely remember seeing coffins stowed aft before eventually being sent ashore.
Steven, you may be interested to read about "Life Aboard a Pilgrim Ship as Second Officer" (on the Kuala Lumpur) by David R Walker in the Images section of WikiSwire.
Would still like to know if deck passengers were carried on ships other than in the Far East and Indian Ocean.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 20th February 2019, 04:57
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,268
"Would still like to know if deck passengers were carried on ships other than in the Far East and Indian Ocean."

Cunard, NCL, RCI, Costa etc...…… :-)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 20th February 2019, 09:56
Ray Mac's Avatar
Ray Mac Ray Mac is offline  
Catering 1958 - 2007
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Hotels / Catering
Active: 1958 - 2007
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,444
I was on the Saudi Moon 1, we carried up to 400 deck pax on a regular trip between suez and Jeddah.
__________________
Ray McCerery
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 20th February 2019, 13:49
sibby sibby is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1961 - 1968
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 255
We carried deck passengers on the Bamenda Palm on occasion. Leading up to the Biafran war we carried 300 deck passengers from Lagos to Port Harcourt. they were escaping from the looming troubles. Our mess room peggy was an Ebo and he had his wife and two young children on board to get them away from Lagos. They spent a lot of the time in our messroom being looked after by us deckhands.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 23rd February 2019, 01:07
gordonarfur gordonarfur is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 44
The Union Company owned two ships Tofua and Matua which had a regular 3 week voyage from Auckland to the Pacific Islands, they had passenger berths but often carried many islanders as deck passengers during overnight passages between the various Islands. The service was discontinued around 1966.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 24th February 2019, 05:52
billeng billeng is offline  
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1964 - 2011
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
Did anyone sail in the GUNUNG DJATI? Ex German PRETORIA b. 1936. Later EMPIRE DOON then EMPIRE ORWELL. Bought by Blue Funnel 1958 and later sold 1966.

Must have been Blue Funnel's largest passenger ship, 17,516 grt.

Stephen
I sailed in her as a child then known as Empire Orwell, Southhampton to Singapore.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 24th February 2019, 09:02
Engine Serang Engine Serang is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1970 - Present
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
"Would still like to know if deck passengers were carried on ships other than in the Far East and Indian Ocean."

Cunard, NCL, RCI, Costa etc...…… :-)
A bandwagon never goes by that you don't feel obliged to jump on board.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 24th February 2019, 23:27
gordonarfur gordonarfur is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 44
The Empire Orwell was a troop ship hired by the UK govt for lugging squadies and their families around the world, mainly to the ME and Far East. All finished around the late fifties early sixties.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 1st March 2019, 00:28
PeterJML's Avatar
PeterJML PeterJML is offline
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1961 - 1979
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 13
Gunungdjati/Empire Orwell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
Did anyone sail in the GUNUNG DJATI? Ex German PRETORIA b. 1936. Later EMPIRE DOON then EMPIRE ORWELL. Bought by Blue Funnel 1958 and later sold 1966.

Must have been Blue Funnel's largest passenger ship, 17,516 grt.

Stephen
Remember seeing this hadji ship on my first trip onboard s.s. Hector anchored Aden roads April 1961. I was signed on as supernumary midshipman, the only Aussie crew member. There were 3 other middies, Mike the senior guy, Gerry Pengelly and Pat Kennedy. I signed the indentures at one shilling a month in Brisbane, March 1961 with the Master, Richard Hannay!!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 1st March 2019, 03:25
PeterJML's Avatar
PeterJML PeterJML is offline
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1961 - 1979
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 13
Deck Passengers

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Melbourne View Post
Thanks all,
Good to see I have got some discussion going on this.
The China Nav and Dutch RIL ships carried their deck passengers on the shelter deck. There are some clips of life aboard a RIL ship on YouTube, but I haven't got the link at hand just yet.
Pilgrim ships were just like troopships. I sailed on Anking just after she was replaced as a pilgrim ship by the Kuala Lumpur. I vaguely remember seeing coffins stowed aft before eventually being sent ashore.
Steven, you may be interested to read about "Life Aboard a Pilgrim Ship as Second Officer" (on the Kuala Lumpur) by David R Walker in the Images section of WikiSwire.
Would still like to know if deck passengers were carried on ships other than in the Far East and Indian Ocean.
The West African run with ED's from Dakar to Douala and ports in between. See photo : taken aboard m/v Owerri anchored Victoria, British Cameroons, 1962/3(?)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Owerri,deck passengers-001.jpg (306.8 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg OWERRI, deck passengers ashore Cameroons WA.jpg (130.9 KB, 20 views)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 1st March 2019, 09:25
garryNorton garryNorton is offline
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1957 - 1961
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 43
Deck passengers were the normal in the British Solomon Islands and we had a square footage as to how many were allowed on the various ships along with what trade they were on ie coastal,inter island or foreign going.Also there was a life saving requirement ie lifejackets,flowage requirement,lifebuoys,inflatable lifeboats and normal lifeboats which were also used to ferry passengers ashore.All ships were checked annually and their seaworthiness also checked.In my time in the Solomons only 2 passengers were lost at sea and both of these were British not obeying the Captains recommendation.The Marine Department had over 30 small ships,churches about 20, private companies about 40 or more all checked yearly and certificated.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 1st March 2019, 09:44
Duncan112's Avatar
Duncan112 Duncan112 is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1981 - 2003
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
My location
Posts: 3,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by garryNorton View Post
Deck passengers were the normal in the British Solomon Islands and we had a square footage as to how many were allowed on the various ships along with what trade they were on ie coastal,inter island or foreign going.Also there was a life saving requirement ie lifejackets,flowage requirement,lifebuoys,inflatable lifeboats and normal lifeboats which were also used to ferry passengers ashore.All ships were checked annually and their seaworthiness also checked.In my time in the Solomons only 2 passengers were lost at sea and both of these were British not obeying the Captains recommendation.The Marine Department had over 30 small ships,churches about 20, private companies about 40 or more all checked yearly and certificated.
https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galle...ichola/cat/all
__________________
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

George Santayana (1863 - 1952)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 1st March 2019, 10:04
garryNorton garryNorton is offline
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1957 - 1961
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 43
You can see what happens when the UK Government gives independence and takes away their civil service.Today we pay more in aid than they did administering the Solomons
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 1st March 2019, 21:03
PeterJML's Avatar
PeterJML PeterJML is offline
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1961 - 1979
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 13
G'day Garry,
Yes, the same for PNG. Back in the 60's and 70's (the golden years) when I was on the PNG and Inter-Island trade on small ships we carried 'deck' passengers primarily for indentured labour for the copra and cocao plantations. A tarp was spread over a 'housed' derrick for protection against the elements where they camped for the one or two day trip.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg KALILI, PNG, my first command!.jpg (144.6 KB, 14 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Riversdale College 1970-73 (Deck Cadets) Bill Olaman Nautical Colleges 31 11th July 2016 10:17
Cruise passengers revolting (or should that be revolting cruise passengers) shamrock Modern Cruise Ships 26 8th July 2009 21:40
Deck Passengers Peter Martin Elder Dempster 4 12th April 2009 08:22
Deck colours Shipbuilder Elder Dempster 11 15th January 2006 23:05
Deck colours Shipbuilder Model Ships 13 10th October 2005 22:31



Support SN


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.