Denholm current funnel markings - Ships Nostalgia
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Denholm current funnel markings

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  #1  
Old 17th August 2018, 15:20
BillH BillH is offline
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Denholm current funnel markings

Do any of the older company men have any idea when they were adopted as I have seen some photos of pre-war vessels without the houseflag. With a black and white photo impossible to say what colour base of funnel was. Some appear dark and others light - perhaps buff

The only thing I can think of is that some may have been chartered out.
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  #2  
Old 18th August 2018, 13:33
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funnel and flags

Nothing specific, but from the horse's mouth - the images of the ships (auto change) show the houseflag on and off the funnels. Was thinking about the change to ON the funnel flag, happening around steam to motor era, as you couldn't get much on these early thin cigarette funnels! http://www.denholm-group.co.uk/our-history
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Old 18th August 2018, 15:24
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The latest funnel does have the flag on red background but the flag isn't 'fluttering in the wind', just a simple square with diamond and D. Must have been cheaper than making the wavy flag. Pity.


The funnel has been red with black top. The red seems dark in some photos and some seem pale. That is a problem with lens filters. Without the filter red reads as dark. I think same filter was used to be able to show clouds. Why a lot of old photos do not show up clouds. Likely professional photographers would have the filters and knew all that, we didn't!

Stephen
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  #4  
Old 18th August 2018, 15:35
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Here we go.... the new funnel the new MOUNTPARK. 38,000 dwt greared bulker. Sistership GLENPARK.
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  #5  
Old 18th August 2018, 15:45
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Here is the GLENPARK. Fine looking bulker. Want to go back to sea? :-) Looks the only colour change is the change of the grey cranes and grey hatches. I prefer the old buff. Also attached... the old GLENPARK. Between GLENPARK and SCOTSPARK were two of my favourite ships. WELLPARK, OK, but a Mitsubishi built can't beat a Clydebank built vessel!
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File Type: jpg GLENPARK.jpg (458.2 KB, 74 views)
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Old 18th August 2018, 16:38
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The latest funnel does have the flag on red background but the flag isn't 'fluttering in the wind', just a simple square with diamond and D. Must have been cheaper than making the wavy flag. Pity.


The funnel has been red with black top. The red seems dark in some photos and some seem pale. That is a problem with lens filters. Without the filter red reads as dark. I think same filter was used to be able to show clouds. Why a lot of old photos do not show up clouds. Likely professional photographers would have the filters and knew all that, we didn't!

Stephen
Thanks for the new pics Stephen. The updated 'static' house flag isn't too bad - still very distinctive.

A great book about flags and funnels and their derivation and stories behind their design is 'A Survey of Mercantile Houseflags and Funnels' by J.L. Loughran. Copies pop up on ebay or from the usual second hand sellers. Prices vary! The small Brown, Son & Ferguson 'Flags & Funnels' books are really just catalogues.

Good thinking about the camera filters .. pink/skylight, yellow, orange, green (especially foliage) and red filters were used in monochrome photography to increase the contrast, in that order. Like to accentuate the clouds, etc as you say, as the film/plates didn't have quite the same response as the human eye. The very high quality Builders photos like from Ralston on the Clyde, will always be the best guide. Or from Skyphotos, now Fotoflite, etc, etc. I scanned loads for a pal that were rescued from SSM - that were skip bound, when they folded. Some great images, very interesting but a never ending job ... Far easier to scan the large monochrome prints that the horrible textured, round cornered 70's enprints!

A Scotspark funnel attached - 1969 and still rivets! Ugh!
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Old 18th August 2018, 17:23
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Rivets? Love 'em!


You were on SCOTSPARK when new?

I was paid off WARWICK FORT when she was sold in Singapore (Oct 71). Flew all the way back to Glasgow... three days in Singapore and two days flying back, Singapore, Kharachi, Beruit, Frankfurt, London, Edinburgh then Glasgow! Walked into No. 120 and first they said was, "What are you doing here? You were supposed to fly from the FORT to Newcastle NSW to join MOUNTPARK." Oops. I stayed in a hotel and they gave me a job in the Mail Room for about four days. Worked Mr Liddle. Remember him? He told me a story about the mail. A piece of mail was address to 'Sir Andrew Duncan'. The mail went out and came back some weeks later from the DUNCRAIG. The letter addressed Sir Andrew Duncan came back with a scrawled message 'Return to Sender - Sir Andrew not on board'. :-) Anyhow, did my time in the mail room, was put on a flight to Montreal and then on to Thunder Bay and joined SCOTSPARK. Eight enjoyable months.

Oh, you funnel is definitely SCOTSPARK. The aerial mast you can see, is SCOTSPARK. GLENPARK didn't have that. The aerials ran from the goalposts. The only differences between the two, the mainmast painted white. SCOTSPARK was painted buff. SCOTSPARK had grabs, GLENPARK had none.

I wish I'd missed MOUNTARK. One of my college mates J.M. (Ian) Craig was in the ship. Could have had a laugh (pint) or three.

Stephen
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File Type: jpg SCOTSPARK 8.jpg (168.3 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg SCOTSPARK 1972.jpg (141.2 KB, 19 views)
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  #8  
Old 18th August 2018, 17:34
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David,

Re you posting about old photos. So much has been lost. I have bought some beautiful large B&W negatives from the 1930s. The images disappear into private collections. Fine, but they should be with World Ship.

I would love to do a book about J&J, Denholm Line but also with (Management) Ltd. What a collection that would be! I enjoy seeing the Denholm flag... flying all over the place, on lorries and on new buildings.

Stephen
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Old 18th August 2018, 19:20
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David,



I would love to do a book about J&J, Denholm Line but also with (Management) Ltd. What a collection that would be! I enjoy seeing the Denholm flag... flying all over the place, on lorries and on new buildings.

Stephen
I am well advanced on the very project you mention with a view to finding a publisher for a book or releasing it myself as a PDF book on CD/USB as the next in a series I have done in that format.

Currently I have 88 owned vessels and 165 managed vessels documented with full careers and now searching for images with copyright holders authority to use to illustrate.
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Old 18th August 2018, 20:52
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I am well advanced on the very project you mention with a view to finding a publisher for a book or releasing it myself as a PDF book on CD/USB as the next in a series I have done in that format.

Currently I have 88 owned vessels and 165 managed vessels documented with full careers and now searching for images with copyright holders authority to use to illustrate.

Bravo! Sign me up for a copy! If you want a painting for the cover... let me know. I'd gladly do it for you!

Stephen
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  #11  
Old 18th August 2018, 23:10
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And please put me down for a signed copy!
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  #12  
Old 19th August 2018, 10:12
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Stephen,

Managed vessel identification is somewhat problematic. As far as I can ascertain from different sources there were three types of management undertaken. Commercial / technical and crewing.
Commercial managed vessels are readily identifiable as they usually appear in Lloyd's Register as such whereas Technical managers and crew providers do not.

The 165 I have identified therefore were commercial management per LR's. Of those, some had small Denholm shareholding through associate co-partnerships.
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Old 19th August 2018, 11:21
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Stephen,

Managed vessel identification is somewhat problematic.


whereas Technical managers and crew providers do not.

.


Give a few examples of these. Should be able to see what was what.


Stephen
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Old 19th August 2018, 12:12
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Give a few examples of these. Should be able to see what was what.


Stephen
Hi Stephen,

I have just trawled through the now re-instated gallery and added thirty or so managed vessel names to research fully in the coming weeks. No doubt more will come out of the woodwork

I was told that technical management was purely looking after the vessel in regard to spares, survey dockings etc and nothing to do with cargo fixing etc the latter being commercial management.

Because of this LR do not list technical managed / crew supply vessels under an owner or managers name in the List of shipowners and existing ships

Bill
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Old 19th August 2018, 14:17
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Rivets? Love 'em!

You were on SCOTSPARK when new?

Stephen
No - 2nd trip Engr cadet - towards the end of her career, Jan - June 1980. Joined Nagasaki (she had just clattered the quay, causing a bit of damage ....), down to Kwinana, via Nauru of course (waiting 2/3 weeks), then loaded Port Pirie and Newcastle back up to Japan, and then the same run again.
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Old 19th August 2018, 14:27
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And please put me down for a signed copy!
+1 here too
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Old 20th August 2018, 15:25
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I note in the gallery when I viewed search under Denholm that there is a photo of STENA IONIA in Malta with a couple of crew in the foreground.

I was unaware that she had been managed as it did not crop up during research for the Stena company history.

That work only showed Denholm in relation to five Stena related vessel but none when owned by them only prior or after.

WISTERIA
VIKING TRADER
ALPHA CRUSADER
BAR PROTECTOR
NORTHERN INSTALLER


Is anyone aware when STENA IONIA was managed and if any other were also?
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Old 20th August 2018, 19:22
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No - 2nd trip Engr cadet - towards the end of her career, Jan - June 1980. Joined Nagasaki (she had just clattered the quay, causing a bit of damage ....), down to Kwinana, via Nauru of course (waiting 2/3 weeks), then loaded Port Pirie and Newcastle back up to Japan, and then the same run again.
Ah! Short runs!

When I joined in Nov 1971 I was the first cadet on board. Story was that the Denholm ship, like in Denholm Line, did not take cadets because of the cost of having a cadet on board. If a cadet was on a managed vessel then the owner paid the cadets wages. Not sure if it was true but might have been. I knew a cadet was on MOUNTPARK in 1971 but I believe the ship was on Time Charter to Naess (and with their funnel colours). For sure there were cadets on SCOTSPARL and GLENPARK in 1973/74. By the time WELLPARK came around it was the complete opposite!

Re accommodation. There was no cadet accommodation on board. I lived in the Pilot Cabin just abaft the wheelhouse. Good cabin too. Location had + and -. Too close for the Mate... on 4 -8. Shower two decks down but the bog right there. I had my own private bar. The Rigger's Mess. The bottle of the Johnny Walker's was kept in the box with the Smoke Helmet. When the Mate was on watch, Chippy and I could sit and have a dram or two. At least lunch in the crew mess on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Kept quiet about that one. I guess the cadet was on diet again. As if ever!

Stephen
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Old 20th August 2018, 19:23
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I note in the gallery when I viewed search under Denholm that there is a photo of STENA IONIA in Malta with a couple of crew in the foreground.

I was unaware that she had been managed as it did not crop up during research for the Stena company history.

That work only showed Denholm in relation to five Stena related vessel but none when owned by them only prior or after.

WISTERIA
VIKING TRADER
ALPHA CRUSADER
BAR PROTECTOR
NORTHERN INSTALLER


Is anyone aware when STENA IONIA was managed and if any other were also?
Not a clue! I had hoped to help. Sorry.

Stephen
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  #20  
Old 20th August 2018, 19:45
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Stephen,

Below are the details of the five vessels listed above, as currently stand - still to update.

This is my usual level of vessel detail in all my books and CD books to give you some idea.

Bill

9000352
WISTERIA (1991 - 1997) Very large crude carrier (VLCC).
145,403g. 98,440n. 258,096d. 338.00(BB) x 58.36 x 19.170 metres.
7-cyl. 2SCSA (800 x 3,056mm) B&W 7S80MC type oil engine by Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd., Kobe. 25,200bhp. 15.5 kts.
23.4.1991: Keel laid as WISTERIA by Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd., Sakaide (Yard No. 1424) for Tsuru Maritime Corp., (Mitsubishi Logistics group) (Denholm Ship Management (U.K.) Ltd., managers) Liberia.
26.9.1991: Launched.
31.1.1992: Completed.
1997: Renamed STENA COMFORT, (Lino Marine Services Company Ltd., appointed as managers).
2000: Sold to Cassiopeia Line Shipping S.A., Seoul, S. Korea, (Hyundai Merchant Marine Company Ltd., Seoul, managers) and renamed PACIFIC COURAGE, under the Panama flag.
2005: Sold to High Sincerity Shipping Company SA, Seoul, S. Korea, (same managers).
5.1.2010: Sold to Zheng Jie Shipping Group Ltd, Hong Kong.
7.2010: Renamed ZHENG JIE.
1.1.2011: Fujian Ocean Shipping Co.Ltd, Hong Kong, appointed as managers.
7.2013: Sold to Ridgely Co. SA, (Berge Bulk Maritime Pte Ltd, managers) and renamed BERGE MANASLU.
1.2015: Still listed on Sea Web as in service.

7501285
VIKING TRADER (1983 - 1985)
Ice strengthened. 12 berthed passengers / roro cargo / ferry, with bow door / ramp, and stern door / ramp.
As launched: 2,905g. 1,021n. 4,150d. 116.95(BB) x 18.14 x 4.779 metres.
As completed: 3,809g. 1,614n. 6,400d. 144.07(BB) x 18.14 x 5.70 metres.
Post 1992: 3,985g. 1,858n. 3,775d.
Post 1994: 9,085g. 2,726n. 3,775d.
Two, 12-cyl. 4 SCSA (370 x 400mm) Deutz RSBV12M540 vee type, oil engines by Kloeckner-Humboldt Deutz, Koeln, geared to twin screw shafts with controllable pitch propellers. 11,999bhp. 18 kts. Two, thwartship thrust propellers forward.
1.4.1975: Keel laid as STENA TENDER by Osterreichische Schiffswerften A.G., Linz - Korneuburg, Korneuburg (Yard No. 709) for Stena Ab, Sweden.
15.1.1976: Launched.
1976: Whilst awaiting completion the vessel contract was sold to the United Baltic Corporation Ltd., London, who had the "steel structure" towed to Werft Nobiskrug GmbH, Rendsburg, for lengthening and completion. Placed in dry dock as STENA TENDER.
14.10.1977: Completed as GOYA.
1.1980: Sold to Federal Commerce & Navigation (1974) Ltd., Canada.
3.1980: Renamed FEDERAL NOVA.
1981: Sold to Seaforth Fednav Inc., and renamed CARIBBEAN SKY.
1982: Renamed MANAURE VII.
1982: Sold to Philippine Maritime Inc., Panama.
1982: Sold to Timber Shipping Inc., Panama, and renamed OYSTER BAY.
1983: Sold to Cenargo Ltd., (Denholm Ship Management Ltd., managers) Southampton, and renamed VIKING TRADER.
1984: Converted to carry 40 berthed, and 36 deck passengers.
1985: Owners restyled as Cenargo Navigation Ltd., (Townsend Car Ferries Ltd., managers).
1986: Managers restyled as Thoresen Car Ferries Ltd., (TOWNSEND THORESEN).
1987: Managers restyled as P&O European Ferries (Portsmouth) Ltd.
1988: Sold to POETS Fleet Management Ltd., London.
1991: Transferred to Pandoro Ltd.
1996: Renamed LEOPARD.
1998: Renamed EUROPEAN NAVIGATOR, (P&O Ship Management (Irish Sea) Ltd., managers).
2003: Sold to Arab Bridge Maritime Company & Salam International Transport And Trading, Aqaba, (Arab Ship Management Ltd, (ASM) Amman, managers) and renamed BLACK IRIS, under the Jordan flag.
9.2012: Sold to El Zafarana Co. for Marine, Suez, Egypt and renamed BLACK HORSES, under Sierra Leone flag.
6.2013: Sold to Oceandro Large Yacht Builders, Egypt retaining Sierra Leone flag.
2.2014: Reported “To be broken-up”.


7432276
ALPHA CRUSADER (1990 - 1993)
Oil rig support / deck cargo / pipe carrier.
As built: 2,416g. 1,135n. 4,024d. 84.77 x 18.50 x 5.227 metres.
Post 1988: 3,401g. 1,573n. 4,034d. 96.63 x 18.50 x 5.340 metres.
Post 1995: 3,375g. 1,013n. 3,120d.
Two, 16-cyl. 4 SCSA (250 x 300) vee type, oil engines by AS Bergens M.V., Bergen, geared to twin screw shafts with controllable pitch propellers. 5,600bhp. 13.5 kts
Post 1988: Three thwartship thrust propellers forward and two aft.
4.8.1976: Keel laid as SEA SUPPLIER by Trondheims M.V. Aker Trondelag AS, Trondheim, (Yard No. 733) for Norwegian interests.
19.1.1977: Launched as STENA SUPPLIER for Rederi Ab Concordia, (Stena Ab, managers) Sweden.
23.6.1977: Completed as STENA WELDER for Stena Line Ltd., Aberdeen.
1980: Lengthened by Schichau Unterweser, Bremerhaven, and converted into a fire fighting / diving support vessel, which included the addition of a moonpool hull section and a 100 ton crane. Upon completion, transferred to Rederi Ab Concordia, (Stena Line Ab, managers) Sweden, and renamed STENA WORKHORSE.
1984: Transferred to Stena Line Ltd., Cayman Islands.
1987: Transferred to Stena Ab, (Northern Coasters Ltd., managers).
1989: Transferred to Stena Offshore Ships Two Ltd., (same managers).
1989: Sold to unspecified owners, for reversion into a fire fighting pipe carrier, by G. Eides Sonner, Norway.
1990: Sold to Crusader Shipping Company Ltd. (Denholm Ship Management (UK) Ltd., managers) Isle of Man, and renamed ALPHA CRUSADER.
1993: Sold to Blackmoor Ltd., (Seaforth Marine Services Ltd., managers) Bahamas, and renamed CRUSADER.
1994: Renamed CRUSA.
1995: Sold to Adams Offshore Ltd., (same managers) and renamed ADAMS CHALLENGE.
1997: Sold to Algosaibi Diving & Marine Services, Dammam, Saudi Arabia, retaining Bahamas flag.
4.2006: Sold to Miden Systems, Lagos and renamed MIDEN ANIE, under Nigeria flag.
1.2015: Still listed on SeaWeb as in service.

7814450
BAR PROTECTOR (1984 - 1988)
Ice strengthened, fire fighting / diving, maintenance support ship for offshore installations. Fitted with two diving moonpools.
As built: 5,814g. 2,805n. 4,885d. 111.49 x 20.99 x 6.839 metres.
Post 1984: 6,987g. 2,096n. 4,670d.
Five, 16-cyl. 4 SCSA (250 x 300mm) Polar F216V-B vee type oil engines by Ab Bofors Nohab, Trollhattan, driving five generators, each powering four electric motors, geared to screw shaft with controllable pitch propeller. 14,400bhp. 15.5 kts. Two directional thrust propellers aft, and two thwartship thrust propellers forward.
8.4.1980: Keel laid as STENA PROTECTOR by Oresundsvarvet Ab, Landskrona (Yard No. 277) for Rederi Ab Concordia, (Stena Line Ab, managers) Sweden.
19.6.1980: Launched.
13.3.1981: Completed.
1983: Sold to Brown & Root Construction Ltd., (Stena (UK) Ltd., managers) renamed BAR PROTECTOR, for delivery upon the completion of a charter to the British Government as a repair vessel. (Relieved by H.M.S.DILIGENCE, ex STENA INSPECTOR qv).
1984: Delivered and transferred to Bahamas flag, (Denholm Ship Management Ltd., managers).
1988: Sold to European Marine Contractors Ltd., New Maldon, UK, and removed from management.
2003: Sold to Saipem Portugal Comercio, Funchal, (Equipment Rental & Services BV, appointed as managers).
1.2015: Still listed on SeaWeb as in service.

8110942
NORTHERN INSTALLER (1986 - 1989)
As built: 1,586g. 480n. 3,050d. 85.32 x 19.44 x 5.122 metres oa,
Post 1989: 4,416g. 1,324n. 6,200d. 102.70 x 19.42 x 6.700 metres
Two, 8-cyl. (320 x 350mm) Wartsila 8R32 type engines by Oy Wartsila Ab., Vaasa/Vasa, reared to twin controllable pitch propellers. 7,400bhp. 13.5 kts. 3 thwartship thrust controllable pitch propellers forward and aft.
Deck cargo diving support ship.
Post 1989: Cable laying additional to above.
25.5.1982: Keel laid as UGLAND COMEX I by FEAB Marstrandsverken, Marstrand (Yard No. 160) for John Menzies (Leasing) Ltd., (Ugland Brothers Ltd., managers) London.
16.8.1982: Launched.
30.4.983: Completed.
1985: Sold to Barclays Mercantile (No.3) Ltd., (same managers) London, and renamed ITM INSTALLER.
1986: Sold to Northern Installer Ltd., (Denholm Ship Management (I.O.M.) Ltd., managers) Isle of Man, and renamed NORTHERN INSTALLER.
1989: Sold to Northern Contractors International Ltd., (Ugland Offshore AS, managers) Cayman Islands, lengthened and converted for additionally laying cable.
1995: Sold to Flex Installer Offshore Ltd., (Coflexip Stena Offshore Ltd., managers) and renamed FLEX INSTALLER. 1998: Renamed CSO INSTALLER.
2000: Sold to Technip Offshore UK Ltd., Aberdeen.
2000: Sold to Global Marine Systems Ltd., and renamed WAVE ALERT.
2003: Sold to Torch Offshore Inc, Gretna, Lousiana , and renamed MIDNIGHT WRANGLER, under Vanuatu flag.
2005: Sold to Louisiana Pipelaying Inc, (Quay Marine Associates, Dartmouth NS, managers) and renamed SEA WRANGLER, retaining Vanuatu flag.
1.2008: Sold to Cal Dive Offshore Contractors, Houston, (Cal Dive International Pte.Ltd, Singapore, managers) and renamed TEXAS.
1.2015: Still listed on SeaWeb as in service.
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  #21  
Old 27th August 2018, 08:45
BillH BillH is offline
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I have a note that four of Jebsens R Class mini-bulkers at some stage fell under Denholm management.
ROCKNES, ROLLNES, RISNES, RINGNES, their British units of the class - built at Appledore mid-70's

Can anyone confirm if this correct and if so, what dates?
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Old 27th August 2018, 08:54
John Cassels John Cassels is offline  
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I have a note that four of Jebsens R Class mini-bulkers at some stage fell under Denholm management.
ROCKNES, ROLLNES, RISNES, RINGNES, their British units of the class - built at Appledore mid-70's

Can anyone confirm if this correct and if so, what dates?
Were they not under Denholm McLay management ?.
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Old 27th August 2018, 10:04
BillH BillH is offline
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Thanks John,

I am lumping Denholm, Denholm Maclay, Naess Denholm all together with all the other Denholm management company styles (UK), (IOM, (HK), Norway, (Overseas) Ltd etc etc. as one chronology.


At this moment in time I have accounted for 88 fully owned vessels and 350'ish managed under my above criteria.
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Old 28th August 2018, 09:46
John Cassels John Cassels is offline  
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Thanks John,

I am lumping Denholm, Denholm Maclay, Naess Denholm all together with all the other Denholm management company styles (UK), (IOM, (HK), Norway, (Overseas) Ltd etc etc. as one chronology.


At this moment in time I have accounted for 88 fully owned vessels and 350'ish managed under my above criteria.
Bill , only pointed this out because in my Denholm days ( 1960's and 70's ) Denholm , Naess Denholm etc were under similar hats whereas Denholm McLay were completely seperate.
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  #25  
Old 28th August 2018, 10:09
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No problem John,

I am looking at the wider scope of Denholms maritime activity where they have complete or substantial shareholding in co-partnerships. The exception to that is SERCO Denholm where it has been documented that only 10% is held by Denholm. That was at the outset but may have increased since that report.
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