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F.1 Mercedes-driver Louis Hamilton, being black himself, is a keen advocate of 'Black lives matter' and hopes his fellow-drivers will kneel before the start of the Austrian GP today, to show solidarity with the movement.

During WW2 Mercedes used over 26,000 'slaves' in the production of aero-engines for the Luftwaffe.

Could it be Hamilton doesn't know about that terrible episode in Mercedes past or does his £Multi-million salary help ease the pain he surely feels? Phil
 

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I don't understand your point Phil. To Lewis WW2 and all that went with it was two or three generations ago.
What is he supposed to do, refuse to drive for Merc? I think we all agree that "Black Lives Matter" as much as anyone else's lives matter.
Everything has moved on in the last 75-80 years, that doesn't mean it's forgotten or should be.
I don't think there's anything hypocritical in what he is saying. It might have been seen that way 70 years ago, but things have moved on now.
I've owned 3 VWs & 2 Suzuki's 0ver the years and never thought seriously of not buying them because they were German or Japanese because they both used slavery.
Seems that many in this country remember much more of the past, than what went on in the last decade, which is the one that really counts in this day and age.
 

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Hamilton has played the race card for most of his early career, when he was reprimanded for dangerous driving he has said the stewards were racists and were picking on him because he was black.............
 

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Hamilton has played the race card for most of his early career, when he was reprimanded for dangerous driving he has said the stewards were racists and were picking on him because he was black.............
Source, please? I knowToto Wolff, (the Mercedes team principal) said he knew Hamilton was racially abused on and off the track as an 8-10 yo Karter. The only time I heard Hamilton complain was in 2011 after being 'cited' in umpteen races..
 

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Source, please? I knowToto Wolff, (the Mercedes team principal) said he knew Hamilton was racially abused on and off the track as an 8-10 yo Karter. The only time I heard Hamilton complain was in 2011 after being 'cited' in umpteen races..
Source.....I heard him say it myself after the Monaco GP, after he had took a car out of the race , I think that he was with Mclaren at that time..................(Thumb)
 

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Source.....I heard him say it myself after the Monaco GP, after he had took a car out of the race , I think that he was with Mclaren at that time..................(Thumb)
That was the 2011 incident I referred to..What about your "for most of his early career" bit?
 

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Source, please? I knowToto Wolff, (the Mercedes team principal) said he knew Hamilton was racially abused on and off the track as an 8-10 yo Karter. The only time I heard Hamilton complain was in 2011 after being 'cited' in umpteen races..
People don't have to be black to be thoroughly unlikable.
Why do you need a source? don't you believe him?.
 

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That was the 2011 incident I referred to..What about your "for most of his early career" bit?
Should I have said, that in quite a few of his early interviews he hinted that he was getting a rough ride because of his colour, after the Monaco race he said what I quoted above...........(Thumb)

So my source is me, an ex F1 follower
 

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I'm not sure that kneeling down is the way to go. I wholeheartedly agree that the non-white folk of our world need a unifying symbol that highlights their angst with the treatment they receive. But kneeling down ? To me kneeling down is the act of submission and subjection to the power of a higher authority when lowering yourself before a monarch to be knighted.
My Mother oft said ; "Get off your backside and stand up for your rights, you get more respect that way ".
 

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If we call Hamilton black and not merely of mixed race, are those in the UK not falling into the US trap of accepting one drop of 'n----r' blood making you black though I understand in his case it is 50%?

The use of this abusive term 'n----r' comes from the libretto of the 1927 American musical 'Showboat' and refers to the Steve, the white husband of mixed blood Julie after he had ingested a mere drop of her blood, to avoid the charge of miscegenation being brought against him.

In my very unenlightened youth of over sixty years ago it would have very sadly been referred to as a 'touch of the tar brush'. Snigger, snigger.

Nick
 

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I think that the point Phil is conveying is that a company that used slaves just a few generations ago are considered all equal and above board.
But; A person whose ancestors two hundred years ago had any dealing whatsoever with slaves is now considered a bad person who must repent and pay back any inherited wealth to anyone who feels aggrieved on behalf of their own ancestors.
Apparently..


With regard to genuflection - I was brought up to the Roman Catholic persuasion and was required to genuflect upon approaching the altar. It was an act of submission. I have not done so for 60 years.
If I was a black American football player trying to make a point, by genuflecting instead of standing to attention, then fine I might do so, but I am not.
 

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Re my comments on kneeling down #10 , and similar by Mad Landsman #12 , a relevant article appears in today's Guardian newspaper.
It refers to comments by Frederick Douglass, the ex-slave and abolitionist African-American, regarding a statue of Abraham Lincoln.
The statue depicts Lincoln standing with an unshackled ex-slave in loin-cloth at his feet.
Douglass wrote , "The ***** here, though rising, is still on his knees and naked. What I want to see before I die is a monument representing the *****, not conchant on his knees like a four-footed animal, but erect on his feet like a man".
My view in a nutshell.
 

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"Taking the knee" is a sign of protest and resistance not submission. It was started by black NFL athletes to protest against racial inequality and police brutality during the playing of the 'Star Spangle Banner' at the start of football matches. In stark contrast to the convention of standing to attention with 'hand across heart' the players knelt on one knee, with head up. Frederick Douglass would have seen the point.
 

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#11 . "
In my very unenlightened youth of over sixty years ago it would have very sadly been referred to as a 'touch of the tar brush'. Snigger, snigger."

Whoops, he said the "Sn" word!

John T
 

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Footballers here are all doing the kneeling down thing. Whether they believe in it or not, the white footballers have to do it otherwise they'd be pilloried. Just saying like.

John T
 

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eddyw : being an Oz fan of American football I am aware of the origin of the "taking the knee protest". But it seems to be a particularly American action albeit its now catching on elsewhere. A fair amount of us non-Americans view kneeling down as an act of submission.
And I can only go by the text of Douglass's letter - lodged in the Smithsonian Institute. I certainly wouldn't have presumed to know his take on recent events.
 

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I noted that few of the F1 drivers "kneeled" yesterday, and one man interviewed - I do not remember his exact words - said that he did not need to perform any symbolic acts as his actions were, and had been, satisfactory. I will support that attitude, anyone can produce a few crocodile tears - it does not amount to much real change from what has been, even out and out racists have constantly claimed sympathy with the "*****" through the years.
 
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