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Thank you for your positive comments.

Unfortunately, while we quietly chat amongst ourselves regarding the late, great BF and its many foibles or peculiarities, there are always negative comments and the bait of "claimed superiority". I think that the thread is finally getting back on course after an unfortunate deviation.

Michael, I have been wracking my brain regarding Tudor Owen. I just cannot remember why his name rings a bell.

Regards,
Dave
Hi Dave

I've attached a photo of Chief Officer Tudor Jones circa 1949, you may be able to recognise him although he'd be a lot older if you sailed with him.


Regards


Mike
 

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With tongue firmly in cheek, right, Derek! I sailed with a lot of the ED guys and worked on some S boats in Liverpool. I found absolutely no "us or them", we were all Ocean men.
Rgds.
Dave
 

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My first five vessels were Elders before going to my first Bluey ("Atreus") and then swapped around both fleets for a number of years.
Never found any animosity re which company one was from just friendly banter.
 

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My only connection with E.D's was a very long time ago on a New Years Eve. celebration on board the Glenroy t'other side of K.G.v dock.
We fired off all the distress rockets and some of the sticks clattered down on the decks of the Elder Dempster ship opposite.
Jack Abbiss, who was ship keeping in the E.D., made some comments but, thankfully, not to any higher authority. Been some changes since then!!!
 

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High Hugh

To my Dad's utter astonishment the 2nd Mate burst into tears. Dad had never seen this before. As a Midi he'd learn't to take the bollokings he got off the officers, particularly the mate. He couldn't understand how an Officer who had presumably many years at sea to get to 2nd Mate couldn't cope with a scolding from the Captain.

He presumed that they had a completely different training regime in ED's. It still astonished him when he talked about it up to the time he
died.

Mike
I hope that the Master assured himself that the 2/O was not under some form of stress, or illness etc. rather than merely assume it was lack of BF. training 'causing the emotions described? Rgds.
 

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High Hugh

You mention his punctuallity when taking over the watch, he told me a story about a 2nd Mate from Elder Dempster, they had merged with Blue Funnel in the late 60's, who had joined my Dad's ship and turned up 5 mins late for duty on the Bridge, my dad noticed this but chose to ignore it, the next day at noon the same thing happened and Dad tore a strip off him for his lack of punctuallity. To my Dad's utter astonishment the 2nd Mate burst into tears. Dad had never seen this before. As a Midi he'd learn't to take the bollokings he got off the officers, particularly the mate. He couldn't understand how an Officer who had presumably many years at sea to get to 2nd Mate couldn't cope with a scolding from the Captain.

He presumed that they had a completely different training regime in ED's. It still astonished him when he talked about it up to the time he
died.


Regards


Mike
All (except mine) old mens' memories can be faulty: your father, Mike, could not remember getting flung out of his bunk the night the old Elpenor was almost on her beam ends.
The worst of failing memories that I was ever made aware of was when I arrived in Aden aboard the Strathmore to be met by, ex. Blue Funnel, Graham Allen. He immediately offered me a room in his flat up to the time his wife would be arriving in a couple of months.
Before she eventually arrived the weather had got hot and Graham, very kindly, offered me a place in the one air-conditioned room in his flat, which was the master bedroom where he slept.
So, for several weeks we snored in adjoining beds and he has no memory of it whatsoever! Beat that!
Graham kept a parrot but, for the life of me, I cannot remember its name. Must be slipping.
 

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I hope that the Master assured himself that the 2/O was not under some form of stress, or illness etc. rather than merely assume it was lack of BF. training 'causing the emotions described? Rgds.
Everything was fine after that the 2nd mate turned up for his watch on time during the rest of his voyage. The thing is, it was a very unpleasant experience being toldd off by my Dad, my brothers and I would testify to that. I think he thought the 2nd mate was lax in his punctuality and wondered why it hadn't been picked up before.

Regards


Mike
 

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All (except mine) old mens' memories can be faulty: your father, Mike, could not remember getting flung out of his bunk the night the old Elpenor was almost on her beam ends.
The worst of failing memories that I was ever made aware of was when I arrived in Aden aboard the Strathmore to be met by, ex. Blue Funnel, Graham Allen. He immediately offered me a room in his flat up to the time his wife would be arriving in a couple of months.
Before she eventually arrived the weather had got hot and Graham, very kindly, offered me a place in the one air-conditioned room in his flat, which was the master bedroom where he slept.
So, for several weeks we snored in adjoining beds and he has no memory of it whatsoever! Beat that!
Graham kept a parrot but, for the life of me, I cannot remember its name. Must be slipping.
Hello Hugh

My father remembered the incident with the 2nd mate because it was so unusual. He was adamant however that he had not fallen out of his bunk but if you say he did then he must have.He would have been about 25 when that incident happened so I suppose you could forgive an 80 plus year old forgetting a few things over his life. The 2nd mate bursting into tears on the bridge is something that did stay in his memory though.

Did you recognise Chief Office Tudor Owen ?

regards


Mike
 

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I hope that the Master assured himself that the 2/O was not under some form of stress, or illness etc. rather than merely assume it was lack of BF. training 'causing the emotions described? Rgds.
You have raised an important point, Pilot.

There was the case of a very homesick cadet on a Bay boat who "lost it". As it was related to me, he just could not understand why they would not divert the ship to let him off, so he decided to set fires all over the ship. He made it to Hong Kong and so ended his career. In my humble opinion, this should have been picked up very early on. I remember the psychometric tests we had to undergo - I have had to take them also before being taken on for large engineering projects which involve long periods away from home.

Rgds.
Dave
 

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You have raised an important point, Pilot.

There was the case of a very homesick cadet on a Bay boat who "lost it". As it was related to me, he just could not understand why they would not divert the ship to let him off, so he decided to set fires all over the ship. He made it to Hong Kong and so ended his career. In my humble opinion, this should have been picked up very early on.

Rgds.
Dave
Dave, strangely enough my comments were based on very similar experiences also concerning fires on board tankers. Coupled with a deck officer's reaction when cautioned over poor time keeping. There were pretty sad family issues for him at the time that luckily the R/O had made me aware of before things became too fraught for him to cope with. Rgds.
 

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There can be no doubt that Blue Flue since its origins in the mid-late 19th cenrury had a strong interest in Wales and Welsh people. At the same time there was a determined educational policy (which I imagine could only have been orchestrated at Westminster, although I could be wrong) to eradicate the Welsh language altogether. The evidence at the time of notices in Welsh schools, saying "Welsh not" remains abundant. Much has been written on the subject.

My maternal grandparents both migrated from North Wales to Birkenhead circa 1900. My Mother was born in 1905 and spoke only Welsh at home. She told me more than once that she could speak no English until she went to school. She grew up fully aware of the "Welsh not" policy and became as Anglicised as anybody could be - and married my Father who was a pure Anglo-Saxon Blue Funnel man. A consequence is that Mum never did address either me or my brother in Welsh and, to my regret, neither one of us ever did learn the language. But in light of the determined political efforts to stamp out the Welsh language it is entirely understandable- and not remotely surprising- to me that Welshmen should speak Welsh to each other whenever they might choose.

A generation later, I married a Finnish girl. I claim no fluency in the Finnish language but I ensured (without difficulty, I hasten to add) that Finnish was spoken to our children when they were young and, in consequence, I'm delighted that my own children have learned a most useful second language by the easiest and most natural means.

Blue Flue am byth!
 

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I do believe, that as far as politicians are concerned, their concerns are to do with the considerable expense and bureaucracy which is involved with dual language: similar to the French with the Breton language.
 

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Hi, Hugh,

And thus the English should rule the world? Of course!

Hugh, I don't know what the answer is to expense, inconvenience and bureaucracy; but a deliberate policy to eradicate a language seems to me to be a step too far, on any view. I'm quite sure that Alfred Holt would have seen that much.

B
 

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Changed days for Dick Pritchard who I remember as a middy, Orestes perhaps on the Aussie coast, jumping into the vernacular with our Welsh speaking 3rd Mate giving others the impression he was talking about something he didn't want them to know.
R651400,I dont think we are talking about the same Dick Pritchard ,the one I know was an ordinary seaman with us on the Hyria.
 
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