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I was Ellerman's Project Engineer for that class of ship built at Appledore. Great ships - shame about the 58JS3s! I had wanted the engine to drive a CP propeller at constant speed but the boss wouldn't have it. I think it was killed by the yard wanting a £45k extra which is a shame as it would have transformed the engine by doing away with the starting assister and probably considerably reduced the piston ring and liner wear problems encountered in service. Interestingly we found that the dead band was not as big as the theory suggested and it was further improved on the second shop when we changed the phasing of the propeller with the crankshaft .
At the beginning of the contract we were badly deceived by British Shipbuilders and Doxfords who told us the 58JS3 was a slower speed(220 rpm) version of the "fully developed"Seahorse. Unfortunately that was totally untrue but it was too late before we found out the full truth. The first engine was over 6 months late and development had to continue with the ships in service .
Perhaps a TM410 or K Major wouldn't have been so bad after all !!
Hello Tim, long time no see. I didn't know you were involved with the Ellerman's vessels but I only made a flying visit for the sea trials on the "Plymouth". I remember you from the early days of the Appledore-built UMD dredgers "City Of London" and "City Of Westminster" and their 6MB275 main engines, although my Mirrlees colleague Paul Beetham was more deeply involved than I was.
Developing engines at sea seems to be a constant theme, I spent a lot of time on Appledore's Rowbotham vessels "Echoman" and "Tankerman" trying to get them to run reliably on heavy fuel, I suspect Rockies were told they were "fully developed" as well.
 

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You might want see if there are any old copies of Southerns Marine Diesel Oil Engines about prior to revision 8, mines rev 10 and it only has the LB, P & J types that were around in the 1970's.


It may be worth writing to the Institute of Marine Engineers if they are still around
( when I left they seemed to be pricing themselves out of the market).

Though whether anybody you speak to even knows what a Doxford is. They seemed far removed from when they were first set up or even when I joined in the 1970's, it was becoming very academic with pages of formula in their transactions. There was only John Gray who had a column that seemed in touch with real world. But worth a try, but they would want you to cross their palm with silver.
Back copies of the Motorship, Shipbuilder and Marine Engineer.

Somebody who would have had lots of info was Tony Frost, but he sadly passed over the bar.

Good luck in your endeavours, I sailed with 2 twin 6's an LB and a P type, with BSL, they were an experience that all Marine Engineers should have had.
Have Sotherns edition 8, with 3 cylinder doxfords in it, but no model type etc. mentioned.
Had forgotten how complicated the were!! Only sailed with 6 cylinder but worked on SSMTC single cylinder at college.
Dannic.
 

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Posts #79 , 80, 81& 82.
I never had the good fortune or misfortune of sailing with Doxford Engines but heard many horror stories.
The records of the Doxford Company are now kept by Tyne & Wear Archives & Museums. I don't think you can get them on line which means you would have to attend in person. You can get the Ref No for articles you would wish to view on line. I found this one for 58JS3(for small ships)
Ref No DS.DOX/6/4/179
Feb. 1979
Supplement to "The Motor Ship" includes detailed plans. Hope this helps.
Bill
 

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There was a 3 cylinder Doxford on at least 1 of the following China Nav. ships ..... Shansi, Soochow, Szechuan, Sinkiang all built UK 1945/46
I sailed on the mv Soochow (China Navigation) in the 1970's ex Moldangar (I think) built 1950 was 8 cylinder MAN double acting 2-stroke (ex german pocket battleship engine), 3 x MAN generators (ex-submarine engines)
l also sailed on "Journalist" 4cylinder Doxford (T&J Harrison Line, Doxford built economy ships, 10,000tonnes, 10knots, 10tonnes hfo/day) - also "New Guinea Chief" 4cylinder with China Nav
 

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piss, bang , fart, engineers, every one of you, what about a :pamatrada HP/LP steam set turbines, with double articulated gear box, Or a Stal Laval Turbine set, with an Allens epicyclic gear reduction box, all lead by Foster wheeler esd, or a babcocks boiler.
But hey enjoy you motor reminisces, we had our moments in the steam game, we where all marine engineers after all, but we had white boiler suits?????
 

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Had forgotten how complicated the were!! Only sailed with 6 cylinder but worked on SSMTC single cylinder at college.
Dannic.
They weren't sophisticated but were as dannic said, certainly mechanically complicated;
A 6 cylinder LB has 61 bearings (62 if centre scavenge), 25(26) in spherical housings and 18 steel-on-steel . And then there were the 12 mechanically operated fuel valves before timing valves turned up . Piston water cooling wasn't great either with those bottom piston swinging links and and spring loaded packed glands and a choice swinging links with Barclay Curle elbow glands for the top piston or rubber hoses. The latter much simpler but could prove exciting on some ships if one failed as the flailing hose could make a good job of hosing down the switchboard.
 

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piss, bang , fart, engineers, every one of you, what about a :pamatrada HP/LP steam set turbines, with double articulated gear box, Or a Stal Laval Turbine set, with an Allens epicyclic gear reduction box, all lead by Foster wheeler esd, or a babcocks boiler.
But hey enjoy you motor reminisces, we had our moments in the steam game, we where all marine engineers after all, but we had white boiler suits?????
Managed to get a bit of a bend in an Stal AP32 hp shaft and one area of my boiler suit turned brown so white boiler suits were not always guaranteed !
 

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Turbines can be driven by steam? Well I never! Much better with an aeroderivative gas generator. (Surely they get wet your way?).
 

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Aeroderivative gas generator, sponsored by OPEC, was a thirsty bugger and not overly fond of salt water. Only suitable for ships sponsored by taxpayers.
That's why we engineers advised the Beancounters to re-engine or palm-off to taxpayers, God bless their little cottonpicking cheque books.
 

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I am sure Seatrain would have appreciated taxpayer assistance. Thirsty, oh yes. Hence the strides taken to burn ****fuel in 'em. Conceived before the oil crisis, born by the time it bit. Died by Stork Werkspoor (first. I fancy they got a second re-engining). I am not sure the SL7s burned that much less (although presumably bunker C rather than paraffin) and the machinery must have taken out vastly more space that could have been for cargo than Seatrain's GTVs.
 

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As Gulpers said in September 2005


I remember that we used to have two RO's. A junior who used to take care of the daily schedules between Glasgow and the States and the senior RO who was retitled as an ECO. The Electronics and Communications Officer spent most of his time working on control systems for the Gas Generators and Gas Turbines.

Jesus what a mistake. We all on SN have suffered ever since. Bloody Denholms trying to save money.
 

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Although the golden boys were already on the GTVs it was not only there. Texaco employed them too and was where I would have cut my ETO teeth except they had no idea what we were for. I think they simply wanted R/Os that would not start drinking until after dinner instead of after breakfast - I am not sure I fitted that model very well. Idle hands and all that. To boot I was not a the kindest senior with whom a Junior might start (although I count myself a star in that once ashore. The GTVs were very heaven for me and when jumping ship (I had been rented to Denholm's for several years anyway) it was quite clear that there was absolutely no call for two voltage dependent disciplines (in fact a need to have just one but with a little learning) and on most ships no need for two bodies either.
 
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