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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
The Historic warships HMS BRONNINGTON, HMS PLYMOUTH, HMS ONYX and LCT 7074 have been abandoned this week by the receivers who have disclaimed the ships.

It would appear that ownership of them is now with the Crown as they are abandoned assets. What on earth will happen to them now is anybodys guess.

The U Boat, U534 is still owned privately as is the ex Mersey BAR LIGHTSHIP which has been moved away from the other vessels.

This is a very sad day and the parties responsible for the breakup of this Historic organisation should be ashamed of themselves.

To do this, just to covert an old flourmill into luxery flats that nobody can afford to live in and wont want to anyway ( its on the side of a smelly dock surrounded by industrial sites and over run with rats ) is a disgrace and their greed is an example of the large property developers of today. The destruction they have wrought in the name of developement is despicable. (Cloud)


Chris
 

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Chris
I agree with all that you have said. I think that it is typical of the majority of property developers all over the world, they think only of several things money and more money.
Frank
 

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Would'nt it be nice if they could find a home for HMS Plymouth, somewhere appropriate like..Oh, off the top of my head...PLYMOUTH??
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Historic Warships

Update so far, the ships afloat have been moved to another part of the dock and the U Boat has been moved further down the quay from where she rested.

Discussions are apparantly taking place between Wirral Borough Council and an unknown person as to the future. So far nothing else has been released.

We can only keep our fingers crossed as to the outcome, we have already suffered the Manxman blow this past week I just hope we dont have to suffer the loss of these ships as well.

Chris.
 

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Here's yet another opportunity for the National Maritime (sailing boats only) Museum in Falmouth to step in and do something..!

What the hell their remit is, and their audacity to be named as they are is beyond me. I would have thought one of their priorities would be to secure some sort of national collection? Surely that's the point of investing public and lottery money in the venture?

Why not moor the Plymouth in Carrick Roads and run boat trips out to her? I know a ferry operator who would love to do it. HMS Plymouth has a long history with Falmouth, I certainly visited her there in 1969 when she was on a port visit.

I'd much prefer to have a tour round a proper historic ship rather than learn how they make canoes in the Solomon Islands.

Grrrr Rushie (Cloud)
 

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Fully Agreed with Rushie.

The Bronnington is a fine vessel as well. I would be happy to make a trip on it as well. Seems that ship preservation is made of a few islands of success in a sea of failures.

Too many people just see ships as a disposable commodity when old. If we had the same view with buildings, Tour Eiffel , the Tower Bridge and all Buildings over 50 years should be demolished and replaced by modern and functional ones.

I plan to offer a cruise myself, but don't want those plastic cubic& blank "Star of the seas" floating resort.
 

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Why not place them in the Albert Dock complex, under the auspices of the mersyside maritime Museum ?? Cheers Bob
 

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I fully agree, our Maritime history is being ALLOWED to vanish from under our noses by greedy Councils and Port Authorities.

We cant blame the property developers as they are just trying to conduct their business. It's the fault of the people who give planning permission, then knowingly stand by counting the profit while ships, dry-docks etc etc are consigned to the history books.

It's time a National Maritime Heritage Agency was set up with powers to prevent this sort of thing happening and a letter to Charlie might not be a bad idea to get things started!

A :mad:
 

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There is supposed to be one, and it's called the National Historic Ships Register, and it fits in the Department of Culture Media and Sport. Unfortunately it has no powers so that a listed ship does not have the protection enjoyed by a listed building (or tree or electricity pylon!!!)

You may also be interested to know that we did seek help from Prince Charles re the Manxman project. However the main angle of the response was would we invite him to the opening.

Do I sound depressed? Yes

Bill Ogle
 

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Familiar with the Historic Ship register but as you say it's a bit of a toothless tiger.

What's the latest on MANXMAN? is it bad news?

I remember her at Ardrossan for her summer visits, what a classy ship and mighty impressive flying in through the harbour entrance stern first.

A
 

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Historic Warships Birkenhead

The latest on the warships is that "Onyx" has been bought by a Barrow business man Joe Mullen for a sum said to be more than £100,000. In the meantime all sorts of sad excuses are being put abroad for the inability to find a home on the Mersey.
Norman.
 

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Good thread - any update?

I visited two years ago - mainly to see U-534 (owned by Karsten Ree (I think that is how you spell it!) and on loan to the Trust. The whole experience was great, with the guides knowing their stuff.

It is a damned shame that developers have once again ridden roughshod over our heritage. I hope they can set up again elsewhere although the U-534 would need more than a windy hammer, some red lead and loads of ovies to get her away in one piece.

Keep us posted if you find anything out?
 

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on Yorkshire t.v last NIGHT
a new program started ,and the very first part was the birds eye view of the north west around LIVERPOOL ,great views down the mersey and the shipping.
then over BIRKENHEAD .looking down on H.M.S PLYMOUTH.now it,s all gone.:mad:
 

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Mad idea this ----- madder than being mad in a mad house (and I should know all about that........)

We have, on this site, Master Mariners past and present, ex Chief Mates and 2-oh's, Chief and lesser engineers, sparkies, lekkies, bilge rats, deckies, cooks and possibly bottle washers too......We have ex MN and RFA, RN, RCT, RAF, fishing fleets and RNLI - plus the odd coastguard, a policeman and - I bet - a Customs and Excise Officer.

We have ship enthusiasts coming out of our ears...........We have, in short, a couple of very experienced crews available.......

We are or were a maritime nation. We have a heritage and a history. The ships at Birkenhead are historic and should be preserved. There are a few merchantmen out there that deserve that as well.

I'd be willing to offer my time some weekends and possibly as a working holiday to do my bit and see whether we could rescue the ships or indeed one of them - sleep aboard, work day work and chip, scrape, paint, splice etc. I can also write newsletters.........and basically all because it is a part of my history, the sea, and I would be willing to stand up and be counted in an effort to see what could be done to preserve that.

How many tugs and coasters, cargo ships, tramps and tankers have soldiered on, then been left to rot when they had years more life in them? Look at the 'Shieldhall' - a good example of a trust coming together to keep the past alive. Look at Holland, who not only ensure ships live on but actually sail them, exhibit them and generally ensure the past is not forgotten. They make the past pay for the future. Look at the US, who save Liberty and Victory ships, work on them in their spare time and beg, steal or borrow parts - with the aid, often, of the government - and then get the ships back to a condition where they sailed the Atlantic for D-Daycelebrations!

Here in the UK we have forgotten how to stand and fight those who see money and today rather than history and the glorious past.

Anyone else feel that we could lend our weight to this argument?

Jonty
 

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Not such a mad idea at all. This is exactly the process planned for restoration of the Manxman (see www.ssmanxman.co.uk)
One of the key issues on Merseyside is that there is no support from the owners of the dock estates, Peel Holdings, for restored ships to feature. That is why the Warships had their lease terminated which has lead to the present situation. Similarly the owner of the restored Bar lightship is finding it almost impossible to operate in Albert Dock and recent media articles suggest a move to Salford Quays is likely.
In Manxman's case our conditional offer of a berth in Birkenhead was withdrawn following the Peel takeover. Since that time we have been unable to approach any of the key funding agencies, although a meeting which will take place in 3 weeks time will try to address these issues.
Not bad for a port which won World Heritage Status for it's docks areas, but has chosen to ignore a basic question from the UNESCO Judges who asked "where are the ships?"- and could be the first to lose this important honour.
A frustrated

Bill Ogle
 
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