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In all the many bunker surveys I did on owners or charterers behalf , never
found the excess to be more than 50-60 tonnes. Hardly enough to be
concerned about on a cape size.
 

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Fuel Consumption?

Was called out at 03.00 one morning to relieve a super who was docking an SD14 in Pernis(Rotterdam), as his wife was having a baby in Hong Kong. The orders were to get the engine started and go to Antwerp to load. Left on trials after I'd had all 16 fuel valves reconditioned, (a Deutz Vee 16 main Engine), as only two were, "ticking", when the engine was running! The crew were all Philippines, before leaving I asked the c/e for his FoB, when we arrived at Antwerp I asked for a new set of figures, he had forty tons more than when he left Rotterdam! Bloody good engines! Didn't believe him so went around with him and dipped all tanks, found another fifty tons!(Thumb)

Another story I was told, by a senior Super, was about a Greek vessel about which the charterer had asked the Super to, "Have a look at". It seems that the vessel, (Handy size tanker(45k DWT)), had not been taking much bunkers for the last four voyages. Inspection of the under plates area of the pump room revealed a six inch section of pipe running from bulk head to bulkhead! In the engine-room there was an under plates connection to this pipe, with valves, that led to the main bunker pumping system! (Cloud)
 

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sleeve oil or pocket money

Got a job as Chief on a supply boat in Gulf, This vessel was the biggest fuel carrier (at the time) in the Gulf.
My appointment was extremely rapid not actually expecting the job for another six weeks but was summoned urgently.

Captain, chief eng and second all in jail in Dubai (3yrs) for selling fuel. They had rigged a recirc back to tank after main discharge meter (supplied fuel to rigs in US galls).
At end of a run, they would rv with a fuel buyer out in the Gulf.
They only got caught cos they were flashing the cash all over Dubai.
 

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My colleague did the redelivery to owners, of a Greek vessel from Time Charter to Norasia in Avonmouth. This was nearly 20 years ago so I don't expect I am compromising anyone with this anectdote. The Master told my colleague that the C/E was "hiding" diesel from the surveyor. The surveyor couldn't find any surplus diesel from his dips. To keep the story short, the Master, because he was not being cut in on the deal spilled the beans on the Chief.
The diesel tanks were in the DBs beneath the engine and sounded from the bottom plates. The scam had probably been going on for some years, but worked like this. When the ship was on T/C the abstract showed that the ship was using the max diesel allowed by the Charter Party, every day, regardless of actual consumption. They then had beautifully-made cylinders that dropped inside the sounding pipes and reached to the bottom of the DB.
At off-hire they would fill the cylinder to the level that they wanted the DB to show.
Neither the surveyor nor my colleague were able to detect this inner cylinder even though they shone a torch inside the pipe. The only way they proved it was by pouring a bucket of diesel into the sounding pipe, which of course overflowed it.
We had other instances of vessels fiddling bunkers in this trade. Usually we would redeliver to owners at Dropping of Outward Pilot at Avonmouth. On occasion the ship would deliver to new T/Cs at the same point and declare a lot more fuel on delivery than they had had on sailing from Avonmouth. Usually unaware that the Principals were talking to each other.
 

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I think Bill Davies alluded to my way of thinking early on - It is a matter of trust, respect and professionalism. If people are fiddling bunkers or on the take, what else are they up to? They can't be trusted, its as simple as that!
Rgds.
Dave
 

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Makko,

Your posts are kind of confusing, are reserves different from fiddling the bunkers.

Your 3 posts in this thread are as follows

"Reserve bunkers are no secret - Everyone is aware of them and in fact are necessary on liner service."

or

"It was his old man who put me right on reserve bunkers"

& your last

"If people are fiddling bunkers or on the take, what else are they up to?"

Where do the reserves come from in the first place, who is paying for them ?

Johnb42,

How about the trick of getting hot or cold fuel oil at the test point when going on or off charter & being surveyed, a few degree's one way or the other and there you are just what is needed.

Is that fiddling or maybe just creating or getting rid of the reserves.
 

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While I can not answer for any one but my self reserves are quite different from sleeve oil. Sleeve oil is not on the books. The extra weight just drives the Master and Mates nuts. Sleeve oil is also paid by the owner or charter unless the oil was obtain by "magic" from the cargo. The usual way that sleeve oil is obtained is by over stating the amount of oil burned. I have seen the length of the sounding tubes modified by placing a thicker plate on the striker plate.

I personally do not like sleeve oil. It does not help with the operation of the vessel. If you are over stating the amount of oil used in the engine them you can not properly trend the condition of the plant with the amount of fuel being burnt. For me keeping two sets of books is not worth the trouble it could bring.

Reserve oil is on the books and is accounted for. In the US the coast guard requires that you have 25 per cent reserve oil for the planned trip. Most of the operators that I was employed by would take that to mean each leg since you can take on more bunkers during the voyage. On who pays for the oil depends on if the oil is paid for by the charter or the ship owner.

Joe
 

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MJ, I was referring to the various posts regarding selling off bunkers, having more fuel after a run etc.

Just to get things straight, my point is that "reserve bunkers" are precisely that, a little extra when needed to overcome an unusual/difficult situation. Everyone knows that they are there and take them into consideration. I freely admit that I have never been involved in the chartering of a vessel.

Reserve bunkers are completely different from some of the cases in other posts that mention trying to hoodwink charterers by purposely misstating existing bunkers, false sounding pipes or selling off extra fuel etc. That to me is just plain dishonesty.

On many of the discussions and posts on the site, I often lament that old saying,"What goes on at sea stays at sea". Unfortunately, some comments probably swing the lamp a bit too far and could give the impression to a non-seafarer that sea staff are somehow "on the take"! I was trying merely to address this aspect.

Rgds.
Dave
 

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We work in harmony.

In the old days, the normal on any ship I sailed on was the “Oil Record Book”, filled in each day at noon by the Chief Engineer, after the 4th engineer carried out his soundings, the “Oil Record Book” was the actual contents of the tanks, which was stored in a rack outside CEO’s office door, the mate had complete access to the “Oil Record Book”. In the computerised age, we do not have the “ Oil Record Book”, we have the server, the 4th engineer still puts his soundings in the computer and everybody can view them. It was never the case that the Mate did not know the actual quantity’s in the tank.
But the CEO still had his Reserve/Buffer, difference between actual and official tonnes on board.

John.
 

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Klepsi Pipe

Was called out at 03.00 one morning to relieve a super who was docking an SD14 in Pernis(Rotterdam), as his wife was having a baby in Hong Kong. The orders were to get the engine started and go to Antwerp to load. Left on trials after I'd had all 16 fuel valves reconditioned, (a Deutz Vee 16 main Engine), as only two were, "ticking", when the engine was running! The crew were all Philippines, before leaving I asked the c/e for his FoB, when we arrived at Antwerp I asked for a new set of figures, he had forty tons more than when he left Rotterdam! Bloody good engines! Didn't believe him so went around with him and dipped all tanks, found another fifty tons!(Thumb)

Another story I was told, by a senior Super, was about a Greek vessel about which the charterer had asked the Super to, "Have a look at". It seems that the vessel, (Handy size tanker(45k DWT)), had not been taking much bunkers for the last four voyages. Inspection of the under plates area of the pump room revealed a six inch section of pipe running from bulk head to bulkhead! In the engine-room there was an under plates connection to this pipe, with valves, that led to the main bunker pumping system! (Cloud)
Having sailed with many Greek mariners, the illegal crossover pipe from cargo to bunker systems Is called the Klepsi Pipe as Klepsi Is Thief in Greek. When I was a cadet with a nameless UK Shipping Co, both the C/E's on this particular coaster had diesel landrovers which had long range tanks and Middlesborough port calls were utilised for fuelling them in the middle of the night.
 

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It seems that the vessel, (Handy size tanker(45k DWT)), had not been taking much bunkers for the last four voyages. Inspection of the under plates area of the pump room revealed a six inch section of pipe running from bulk head to bulkhead! In the engine-room there was an under plates connection to this pipe, with valves, that led to the main bunker pumping system! (Cloud)
This was not uncommon.
 

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In the old days, the normal on any ship I sailed on was the “Oil Record Book”, filled in each day at noon by the Chief Engineer, after the 4th engineer carried out his soundings, the “Oil Record Book” was the actual contents of the tanks, which was stored in a rack outside CEO’s office door, the mate had complete access to the “Oil Record Book”. In the computerised age, we do not have the “ Oil Record Book”, we have the server, the 4th engineer still puts his soundings in the computer and everybody can view them. It was never the case that the Mate did not know the actual quantity’s in the tank.
But the CEO still had his Reserve/Buffer, difference between actual and official tonnes on board.

John.
Oh we still have the oil record book - it is now such a high maintenance, super critical, micro scrutinised piece of paperwork it is quite normal to only have one guy allowed to touch it - it is the best way to make sure it balances. I used to give it to 4/Es or if we had one the J/E as they took care of all waste oil movements.
 

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Makko,

Your posts are kind of confusing, are reserves different from fiddling the bunkers.

Your 3 posts in this thread are as follows

"Reserve bunkers are no secret - Everyone is aware of them and in fact are necessary on liner service."

or

"It was his old man who put me right on reserve bunkers"

& your last

"If people are fiddling bunkers or on the take, what else are they up to?"

Where do the reserves come from in the first place, who is paying for them ?

Johnb42,

How about the trick of getting hot or cold fuel oil at the test point when going on or off charter & being surveyed, a few degree's one way or the other and there you are just what is needed.

Is that fiddling or maybe just creating or getting rid of the reserves.
Marine Jockey,
I think you answered your own question regarding hot or cold fuel i.e "How about the trick". If a vessel redelivers from one Charterer, and delivers to another at the same point (ie DOP Avonmouth), with different quantities of fuel, someone is on the fiddle. Hot or cold the "quantity" of fuel is the same.
 

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I do think we are getting a bit mixed up here between keeping a small quantity of bunkers hidden from the company 'just in case' and actually stealing
 

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Guys I think it is just so good that so many of you are so honest.

Who is paying for the "reserve", the title of this thread is "up youn sleeve" so who is paying for that.

Are any of so dumb that we would not try and have a proper "reserve" amount of fuel for any voyage wheither it is across the water to Islay or half way around the world. Of course we order enough bunkers for the voyage plus some in reserve. In a case like that the owners would insist on it and the charterers would have no problem paying for it.

It is "up the sleeve bunkers" that we are talking about here. This usually occurs when some tight fisted charterer works out that for a certain distance at a certain speed you need so much fuel. They have no idea of what actually happens at sea and the need to have those "reserves" on board so to make it all work we had to have that extra fuel "just in case".

The righteous members will call it reserve while others will call it "up the sleeve' but at the end of the day it is still fiddling the books.

I will claim immunity on this but temperature variations were definately the easiest way to "fiddle" the RESERVES and any other chiefs reading this know exactly what I mean.

and before the righteous brigade coming charging out, can I ask how may crew members homes were paint in Houlders colors around London, or how many captains & mates sold dunnage and nobody has yet commented on the water in the paint trick.

I always had a reserve of fuel properly accounted for and known by everybody and then I had up my sleeve fuel which I could vary by temperature of the fuel or the beer! (*))
 

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Right Bunkers - Right?

Then there was the Saturday morning in the eighties that I boarded a North Sea Shuttle around 09.00, just missed breakfast too. The C/E was in a real tizz papers and IPA books all over the place. "What's the problem Chief"? I asked, "The Bunkers are wrong spec and I can't take them "! "How many tonnes"? 1750! "OK", I said, "I'll get in touch with a Senior Super if you like and he can come down and back you up". So said so done, at 14.00 we were back on board and the bunker man's Boss was on board, steaming and calling demurrage here and there, the air was taking on a slightly blue hue! cutting the story, the bunkers were for the FSU, thus a third party, the page of the IPA book from the bunker man, indicating the sg/vis, was not the same page that the ship was using, the shore chemist had issued incorrect sample figures! The bunkers went back after the chief had done no less than three runs of the sample by three different members of staff. Bunker man's Boss, very red faced, came down with written apologies and presento on the Monday morning prior to sailing.(K)
 

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I guess I was too lazy to have any sleeve oil. My definition of sleeve oil is oil not accounted for. The only ship that I was Chief on that did not carry max oil was the Marine Floridian.
My definition of Reserve Oil is the oil onboard that is not required for the intended passage but is accounted for.

The other vessels that I was Chief on we loaded max bunkers. The main reason for loading max oil was to avoid the raising cost of the bunkers. So there was no place to put on extra oil.

The last company I worked for required that we send notice of bunkering to office 72 hours before so extra pollution insurance could be put in place. Train at least 48 hours before bunkering. Complete post Preload plan, which includes monitoring procedures valve line up, tank levels. Plan is to include tank levels percent full, names of key personnel and those that are to relieve include the deck rover. PIC is the only person that can authorize the pulling of scupper's. Notify QI 24 hour hours before bunkering. Since we were loading 95 - 98 per cent load of bunkers you could not under state the amount fuel onboard any extra oil would have filled the drip pans.

If you did not correct for temperature of the delivered oil you could have deck cargo.

MJ, you for got the junk brass barrels, the proceeds usually went for a party for the crew ashore.

Joe
 

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Joe, now that you bring it up I remember the scrap barrel belonging to the
2/E who would guard it very carefully. He would hand out some of the proceeds but alot of seconds that I knew (*)) ended up with new cars without touching their wages.
 

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Scrap barrel and Bunkers in Reserve.

Joe, now that you bring it up I remember the scrap barrel belonging to the
2/E who would guard it very carefully. He would hand out some of the proceeds but alot of seconds that I knew (*)) ended up with new cars without touching their wages.
The scrap barrel.. Bob Birse 2EO was the man in Bank Line, off in the lifeboat in Tarawa 1965, hacksaws and the gas axe, all hands who where of duty, chopping up the Singapore guns, transferred and installed in Tarawa during WW2 by the Japanese, the scrap was flogged in Aussie and shared down the line or went to the party with the girls.
As an ex Chief, 15 tonne Do and 30 tonne HO was about normal in reserve.
On a gas ship 10 days DO consumption was held in reserve at all times to control the cargo.

John. (Thumb)
 
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