[usermatts]

Hello, there. A while ago I made a big genealogic research of my family, and since we are brazilians I discover a lot of interesting histories about my foreign roots - although I am still looking for more information especially about the vessels that brought my family here.

From my paternal side I got two branches from different origins, one from Treviso, Italy, and the other one from Croatia, then part of the Yugoslavia. Both of them came to Santos in different vessels at the beggining of the last century. Through our National Archives I could get the passengers list from one of these ships - Les Andes, the one bringing the Italian part of my family - wich you can access by clicking here. You can see the only picture I found from this vessel in the attachments of this post.

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Unfortunately I could not be able to find the passenger list from the ship SS Zeelandia, wich brough my croatian relatives (from the little city of Mikleus) to Santos and then to Sao Paulo. You also can see a picture from the ship I assume it's this one on the attachments. The personal do***ents I found says that they landed in Santos at the day December 12th of 1925.

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My maternal side came to Brazil from Portugal, specifically from the Madeira Island, in the steamer SS Espagne at the date of August 8th of 1909. I found the passengers list of this voyage and you can access it by here. Also, it was very difficult (there is more than one vessel named Espagne and the one that brought my family is a very simple one, almost forgotten), but I found some pictures of this ship wich you can see here:

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Well, this is all I have. It can looks like a lot of information but I really feel that there is so much more to discover - but I have no idea where to look at anymore. If you know somewhere I can search for more informations (as pictures from the steamers, doc***ents, passagengers lists etc.), please answer this topic below, I would be very grateful!

 

[makko]

An interesting history and findings! Good luck, there are many knowledgeable people on here who might be able to help. Brasil, the only non-european seat of a European Monarchy!
Rgds.
Dave

 

[Harry Nicholson]

Those are lovely vessels, Mathius - and they are rigged for carrying sail when needed. I'm a genealogist too, but Brazil is beyond my knowledge. I hope you have a following breeze with your searches.

 

[Stephen J. Card]

A few shots of ss ZEELANDIA.

 

[eddyw]

"Les Andes" (1882; 3,871 grt) Built by Harland and Wolff, Belfast as "British Prince" for the American Line , Liverpool-Philadelphia service. 1895 sold to Societie Generale de Transport Maritimes (S.G.T.M.) Route: Marseilles - Dakar - Bahia - Rio de Janeiro - Santos - Montevideo - Buenos Aires. Scrapped 1908.
"Zeelandia" (1910; 7,995 grt) of Royal Holland Lloyd. Route :Amsterdam, Southampton, Cherbourg, Vigo, Lisbon, Las Palmas, Pernambuco, Bahia, Rio de Janeiro, Santos, Montevideo, Buenos Aires. Scrapped 1936.
"Espagne" (1891; 3,952 grt) of Societie Generale de Transport Maritimes (S.G.T.M.) typically: Marseilles, Almeria, Las Palmas or Dakar, Rio de Janeiro, Santos or Montevideo, Buenos Aires . Converted to livestock carrier 1923. scrapped 1933.

 

[PortugueseMOW]

Hello Mathius,
I share some lineage with you, and have done some research that may or may not help on my Portuguese ancestors, and my Italian. All wound up in Brazil. Specifically, my great-grandparents sailed from Portugal in 1908 to Brazil on a Howard and Wolff ship. Others came that year in mail ships like yours did. I can't get through to the links you have, but would love to see them, as I am missing 2 of my relatives whose boats I do not know.

For Brazil there is a law in 1938 that required people such as our ancestors to register while going by boat out of the country on vacations, visits, or immigrating. Those forms have been very helpful. Depending upon their age (and I didn't remember that people can board a ship and meet and have a baby really soon afterwards, which stalled me for quite some time) there would be baptisms and marriages in the states of Brazil. That era most were on their way for rubber in Sao Paolo, or specifically, Belem, Paras, that area. I'd love to share what I have and see what you found as I have so many places I'm stuck, and many that I've battled through!

 

[usermatts]

Hello Mathius,
I share some lineage with you, and have done some research that may or may not help on my Portuguese ancestors, and my Italian. All wound up in Brazil. Specifically, my great-grandparents sailed from Portugal in 1908 to Brazil on a Howard and Wolff ship. Others came that year in mail ships like yours did. I can't get through to the links you have, but would love to see them, as I am missing 2 of my relatives whose boats I do not know.

For Brazil there is a law in 1938 that required people such as our ancestors to register while going by boat out of the country on vacations, visits, or immigrating. Those forms have been very helpful. Depending upon their age (and I didn't remember that people can board a ship and meet and have a baby really soon afterwards, which stalled me for quite some time) there would be baptisms and marriages in the states of Brazil. That era most were on their way for rubber in Sao Paolo, or specifically, Belem, Paras, that area. I'd love to share what I have and see what you found as I have so many places I'm stuck, and many that I've battled through!

Hello! Sorry I couldn't answer you early. I don't know what happened to the archives I uploaded and gave the link to access here, but it seems it's really no longer available on that web site. Anyway, I uploaded them on my Google Drive and you can access (I hope so!) by here:
Les Andes - Lista de passageiros Les Andes (Riccardo).pdf
Espagne - Lista de passageiros Espagne (Manoel).pdf

Keep me up with your research!

 

[PortugueseMOW]

Hello! Sorry I couldn't answer you early. I don't know what happened to the archives I uploaded and gave the link to access here, but it seems it's really no longer available on that web site. Anyway, I uploaded them on my Google Drive and you can access (I hope so!) by here:
Les Andes - Lista de passageiros Les Andes (Riccardo).pdf
Espagne - Lista de passageiros Espagne (Manoel).pdf

Keep me up with your research!

Thank you so much for the help. It quickly helped me realize that I had some wrong information. These ship lists were so much more organized to the point I rechecked my novice translations, and I don't have ship launches at all, rather people's baptisms (christenings and ship christenings...so much to learn)

Where did you get the lists? The 1908 from Portugal is exactly what I am looking for, I don't have the day, but it's that year, and now I'm thinking it was a Royal Mail or Booth from Portugal to Paras, Brazil. The Italian ship lists I am better at, as I didn't make the mistake of looking for ships in a basilica being baptized when I translated the Italian.

Also, the Portuguese naming convention is both helpful, and maddening. Have you been able to navigate it?

I'm speculating wildly, but the passenger lists and ports of call seem to be asking "what is your last name" which, if it didn't seem to matter (because who would be looking at these lists 150 years later!) then maybe they just picked one of the four to get on and off with as little fuss as possible. My Grandfather, a US citizen who died at sea during a naval operation was listed by Trinidad the Port of Spain (off the coast was where he died) as First name Jayme R. last name Barbosa Bento Rodrigues de Azevedo, the son of Jose B. Rodrigues e Regina Rodrigues.

Phew, I'm sort of glad I got the English hand me down name instead. Easier to write as a kid.

Thanks for any thoughts you have.