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Not sure about the River Class, Mike, but the Castle Class are exactly the point I am making. Although they were going along the right lines, they were under-gunned and with just two were ineffective and, as always, with resources stretched to the limit they finished up in the South Atlantic! Retaining half a dozen Leanders might have been an option, although they might have been a bit to big for the actual job, although I am sure they could have been modified. But again sophistication was allowed to take charge. When I served in the 'Aurora' she still carried 4.5's and I had the privilege of spending a day onboard her some years later and after she had lost her guns in favour of missiles. Whether it was true or not but during my day onboard one of the officers told me that they were not supposed to sail without a gun equipped Leander to provide an escort!
Looking aT Hugh's post, I think that the dear old Tons gave sterling service in many roles for which they were not designed and several were actually modified as Patrol Vessels for the Far East. They, in turn, were replaced by some properly designed Patrol Vessels but, as is so often the case, these in turn were not retained but simply sold off - I think at least one is serving in the Irish Navy.
Peter4447
 

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Um if you guys ever find out where the Navy went any chance you could keep a weather eye out for british shipbuilding as well. It disappeared some time ago and hasn't been seen since.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Tmac1720 said:
Um if you guys ever find out where the Navy went any chance you could keep a weather eye out for british shipbuilding as well. I disappeard some time ago and hasn't been seen since.
How about solving both problems by giving Vosper an order for some of thier excellent 85m MOPV, it ticks all the right boxes (Thumb)
 

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Where is the Royal Navy going?

Protecting oil rigs, pipelines, oil platforms, tankers? What's wrong with the oil companies financing towards naval protection for them?

Just a thought.

I read this in a "Readers Digest" when I was a young deckboy.

A British Royal Navy destroyer was tied up alongside an American cruiser.
A young American sailor looked down on the destroyer's deck and shouted to a group of seamen, "Hey Limey, how's the second biggest navy in the world doing"

Immediately a young matelot in a strong, loud, cockney voice looked back up and shouted. "Alright mate, 'ows the second best navy in the world doing?"
 

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Tmac1720 said:
Um if you guys ever find out where the Navy went any chance you could keep a weather eye out for british shipbuilding as well. It disappeared some time ago and hasn't been seen since.
Nor has the British Merchant Navy !!!!!!!!!
 

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I do believe I posted a news bulletin during the past 3 months that stated that "a ship" can't remember which one, but a new build had replaced two ships on patrol in the South Atlantic. Maybe new, maybe faster, but the patrolling grounds don't decrease. When you're patrolling South Georgia to the Falklands...that's a hell of a lot of water.

What's a Frigate doing in the South Carribean on drug runs.?...yeah ok....helping out the US. Surely she'd be better off seen in the South Atlantic as a deterence to any potential attack there.?

Rushie
 

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Rushie, while she is stopping Drugs, the liklyhood is that she is stopping some of the cargo reaching the UK and thats worthwhile and OK in my book.

Chris.
 

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Looking out....but.....

Tmac,

I quoted a couple of instances some time ago as to "personal" references and experiences of British shipbuilding and ports and dockers....and why they deserved they're demise.....got shot down...send me a PM and I'll elaborate...!!

Cheers,

Rushie
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
rushie said:
I do believe I posted a news bulletin during the past 3 months that stated that "a ship" can't remember which one, but a new build had replaced two ships on patrol in the South Atlantic. Maybe new, maybe faster, but the patrolling grounds don't decrease. When you're patrolling South Georgia to the Falklands...that's a hell of a lot of water.
That is a prime example of the problem, if you replaced an older ship with two smaller ships that would help with the problem, the type 22 frigette grew to such a size it was bigger than the type 42 destroyer, so replacing it with the smaller type 23 makes sense, but the only reason the RN made this move was to reduce crew numbers and therefore opperating costs, maybe this was not as big a change than it could have been.
 

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Santos,

I agree with you to a point, but if things escalated in the South Atlantic, then I feel she'd be better off down there.

Thing is to show presence before it happens...and we ain't got anything else.!

Cheers,

Rushie
 

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Robotski,

I think you read the mail the wrong way round...2 ships were replaced by 1...not the other way.! Have I got that right..?!!!

Chers,

Rushie
 

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robotski said:
That is a prime example of the problem, if you replaced an older ship with two smaller ships that would help with the problem, the type 22 frigette grew to such a size it was bigger than the type 42 destroyer, so replacing it with the smaller type 23 makes sense, but the only reason the RN made this move was to reduce crew numbers and therefore opperating costs, maybe this was not as big a change than it could have been.
The problem with the Type 23's is again one of sophistication. When I ran the Royal Sailors Rest at Portland, on one occasion we had a visit from the Admiral in charge of Sea Training and I mentioned to him that we could always tell when a Type 23 was alongside because the crew would come in, order a meal and promptly fall asleep!
This might sound simplistic but it is a simple fact of life that with smaller crews (lean manning its called in offical circles) and sophisticated ships means that everybody onboard has to multi-task. I was amazed at the duties the lads in my old branch had to perform and, to his credit, the Admiral did say that it was a problem of which they were very aware. In the old days the crew did the all cleaning but they are now having to provide contract cleaners when the ships are alongside to give the crews a break.
Peter4447
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
That sounds about right Peter, this is why I belive that creating some smaller and simpler ships to take on some of the more mundane tasks like fisheries protection, this could release some personnel to ease the work load on the more complex ships.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
rushie said:
Robotski,

I think you read the mail the wrong way round...2 ships were replaced by 1...not the other way.! Have I got that right..?!!!

Chers,

Rushie
No, I understood what you said, I was saying that it "should" have been the other way round, instead of losing two and gaining one we should have lost one and gained two, all be it a little smaller and simpler.

regards

Mike.
 

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Sorry Mike,

My mistake.!

It was interesting to hear that earlier in the year that when the Argie dockers went on on strike that HMS Endeavour was stuck in Beunos Aries (cr*p spelling!) for 6 weeks...! The first British naval vessel to visit Argentina since the Falklands conflict.!

Seems silly they didn't invade then..!!!

Rushie
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
This whole thing with the Falklands is daft, they say there is oil there and that is the reason for all the interest, dispite the fact that at this point in time it is so ddp under water that nobody can reach it, so with no economic benift for either side, jus task the people who have to live there what "they" want and let that be the end of it.
 

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That's too democratic, and far too simple for the politicians of both sides to take in.!

The battle for Gibraltar is still raging hundreds of years later.

Rushie
 

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The Falkland war was allowed to happen and the building of garrison Falkland Islands was to give Britain and our allies a route and a base in the south atlantic for transitting from Pacific to Atlantic should Panama get funny when she regained control of the canal in 1999
 

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robotski said:
This whole thing with the Falklands is daft, they say there is oil there and that is the reason for all the interest, dispite the fact that at this point in time it is so ddp under water that nobody can reach it, so with no economic benift for either side, jus task the people who have to live there what "they" want and let that be the end of it.
Robotski

When the original wells were drilled off the Falklands it was deemed then to deep to drill. Now with new technology we can drill to those depths and even exceed the depths in Falklands. The only thing thats making it uneconomic is its georaphical position. They keep on saying the North Sea is on a downward spiral but if you try and charter a vessel or drill unit you are talking mega bucks if you can get them.The Falklands will be one of th last places to be developed along with the Maldives in the Indian Ocean where oil abounds in greater depths than the Falklands.
 

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Anyone read 'Ghost Force' by Patrick Robinson. Excellent book.
The Argies are convinced to invade the Falklands by Russia.
Of course the Russians knew that the RN was far too underpowered to retaliate compared with 1982, and wouldn't be able to take them back.
I get the feeling that if Argentina did decide to invade the Falklands(touch wood they don't of course), the situation would be very much the same!
Our fleet is far too small for the most prominent ISLAND nation in the world. Tony and his gang have completely screwed up our armed forces, and I can't forgive them for that.
 
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