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Manchester Challenge 1970
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Manchester Liners Etc.
Hi David,
Your contribution to the site is very much appreciated.
If you sailed with Manchester Liners you must be familiar with Montreal!?
My personal site at <mnnostalgia.com> has a page on this Co. as well as Bank Line. I have been corresponding with a Captain Williamson who sailed with Manchester for over 30 years. I was R/O on the Carinthia.
Glad to have you aboard!
Ian
(Admin)
Montreal.
Hi David,
Your contribution to the site is very much appreciated.
If you sailed with Manchester Liners you must be familiar with Montreal!?
My personal site at <mnnostalgia.com> has a page on this Co. as well as Bank Line. I have been corresponding with a Captain Williamson who sailed with Manchester for over 30 years. I was R/O on the Carinthia.
Glad to have you aboard!
Ian
(Admin)
Montreal.
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28 Posts
I sailed on this Manchester Challenge as well as the Courage, Crusade, Vanguard, Venture and the Reward.
This Manchester Challenge was a conversion from someone elses ship (I can't remember whose) and only came into being after the CY Tung take over. We did not see it as a 'real' Manchester Liners ship at the time. They had all been sold off anyway!!
This Manchester Challenge was a conversion from someone elses ship (I can't remember whose) and only came into being after the CY Tung take over. We did not see it as a 'real' Manchester Liners ship at the time. They had all been sold off anyway!!
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12,219 Posts
Hi,
Manchester Challenge.1968.12,039grt.19.5.knots.renamed Ocean Container in 1979.Hung Fu in 1989.MSC Susanna in 1989.Swan.1. in 1992.scrapped Alang 1993.
Manchester Challenge.1968.12,039grt.19.5.knots.renamed Ocean Container in 1979.Hung Fu in 1989.MSC Susanna in 1989.Swan.1. in 1992.scrapped Alang 1993.
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5,620 Posts
Manchester Challenge
The Manchester Challange was built by Swan Hunter as Dart America for Clarke Traffic Services of Canada. The other members of the Dart consortium were Cie Maritime Belge and Charles Hill/Bibby. They contributed Dart Canada (built in Belgium) and Dart Atlantic (Swan Hunter).
The service was unprofitable and was re-organised in 1981 as Combined Container Services with C Y Tung taking a major part in the business. Dart America was allocated to Manchester Liners and became Manchester Challange. Dart Atlantic had been bought by C Y Tung for Furness Withy in 1980. As part of the re-organisation she was placed on demise charter to Canadian Pacific as C P Ambassador. In 1985 she became Canmar Ambassador.
In 1988 Manchester Liners ceased operations and Manchester Challange became OOCL Challange. She was scrapped in 1996.
Fred
The Manchester Challange was built by Swan Hunter as Dart America for Clarke Traffic Services of Canada. The other members of the Dart consortium were Cie Maritime Belge and Charles Hill/Bibby. They contributed Dart Canada (built in Belgium) and Dart Atlantic (Swan Hunter).
The service was unprofitable and was re-organised in 1981 as Combined Container Services with C Y Tung taking a major part in the business. Dart America was allocated to Manchester Liners and became Manchester Challange. Dart Atlantic had been bought by C Y Tung for Furness Withy in 1980. As part of the re-organisation she was placed on demise charter to Canadian Pacific as C P Ambassador. In 1985 she became Canmar Ambassador.
In 1988 Manchester Liners ceased operations and Manchester Challange became OOCL Challange. She was scrapped in 1996.
Fred
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5,620 Posts
You are information is about an earlier Manchester Challange, Shipmate. The 1968 ship was the first of four container ships built by Smiths Dock to fit the Manchester Ship Canal. She was in fact the first container ship to be built in Britain. Unfortunately she was too small with too fine lines to be economic. She could only carry 502 TEUs, whereas the Second Manchester Challange carried 1556.shipmate17 said:
Best regards
Fred
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2 Posts
Wrong Manchester Challenge!
The one pictured is the ex Dart America built in 1970 30,817grt becoming the Manchester Challenge in 1981. The CP Ambassador was the ex Dart Atlantic, and the CMB Europe was the Dart Europe. These ships had the honour of having the largest enclosed bridges in the world when built. All scrapped now.
The one pictured is the ex Dart America built in 1970 30,817grt becoming the Manchester Challenge in 1981. The CP Ambassador was the ex Dart Atlantic, and the CMB Europe was the Dart Europe. These ships had the honour of having the largest enclosed bridges in the world when built. All scrapped now.
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2 Posts
Wrong Manchester Challenge!
The one picture is the ex Dart America built 1970 30,817grt became Manchester Challenge in 1981 then OOCL Challenge before being scrapped. The Canadian Ambassador was the Dart Atlantic and the CMB Europe was the Dart Europe. All scrapped now.
They had the largest enclosed bridges in the world when built. Powerful ships in ice in the Gulf of Newfoundland and the St Lawrence.
The one picture is the ex Dart America built 1970 30,817grt became Manchester Challenge in 1981 then OOCL Challenge before being scrapped. The Canadian Ambassador was the Dart Atlantic and the CMB Europe was the Dart Europe. All scrapped now.
They had the largest enclosed bridges in the world when built. Powerful ships in ice in the Gulf of Newfoundland and the St Lawrence.
Manchester Courage Incident - Irlam Locks
On the night of 16th March 1969 the container ship MANCHESTER COURAGE outward bound from Mnchester to Montreal collided with the lower gates at Irlam Locks. The lock system being breached lowered the level of the canal closing it for about 5 weeks, trapping a number of ships in the Manchester Docks.
MANCHESTER COURAGE was one of four 500teu. 12000 grt container ships built by Smiths Dock, Middlesbrough between 1968 and 1971.
Can anyone tell me the cause of the incident - was it a ship handling error or machinery control problem. I seem to recall that the ships were powered by Crossley-Pielstick diesel engines but may be wrong. Were they bridge controlled if so with Controllable Pitch Propellors or direct reversible engines.
Sister ships were MANCHESTER CHALLENGE, M-CONCORDE, and M-CRUSADE.
On the night of 16th March 1969 the container ship MANCHESTER COURAGE outward bound from Mnchester to Montreal collided with the lower gates at Irlam Locks. The lock system being breached lowered the level of the canal closing it for about 5 weeks, trapping a number of ships in the Manchester Docks.
MANCHESTER COURAGE was one of four 500teu. 12000 grt container ships built by Smiths Dock, Middlesbrough between 1968 and 1971.
Can anyone tell me the cause of the incident - was it a ship handling error or machinery control problem. I seem to recall that the ships were powered by Crossley-Pielstick diesel engines but may be wrong. Were they bridge controlled if so with Controllable Pitch Propellors or direct reversible engines.
Sister ships were MANCHESTER CHALLENGE, M-CONCORDE, and M-CRUSADE.
Manchester Courage
I understand the problem was dirt in the propeller pitch telemotor filters which allowed the pitch to go to full ahead position.This was a get you home system if you lost the hydraulic pressure to the pitch mechanism.
Theses ships had 18 cylinder Pielstick engines built under license by Crossley.
They had a fuel injector fault which meant the engines were always smoking.
The engines drove the propeller by way of Fawick air clutches with Ferodo linings which when seen engaging were a sight.
I was on the Challege coming down the Manchester Ship canal after the Courage problem and all movements for pitch control were relayed by a headset and commands repeated.
I left Manchester Liners shortly after as being Manchester based did`nt cater for out of towners.
I understand the problem was dirt in the propeller pitch telemotor filters which allowed the pitch to go to full ahead position.This was a get you home system if you lost the hydraulic pressure to the pitch mechanism.
Theses ships had 18 cylinder Pielstick engines built under license by Crossley.
They had a fuel injector fault which meant the engines were always smoking.
The engines drove the propeller by way of Fawick air clutches with Ferodo linings which when seen engaging were a sight.
I was on the Challege coming down the Manchester Ship canal after the Courage problem and all movements for pitch control were relayed by a headset and commands repeated.
I left Manchester Liners shortly after as being Manchester based did`nt cater for out of towners.
Manchester Courage Incident - Irlam Locks
Thanks for the info on the MANCHESTER COURAGE incident.
It seems that this was a similar incident that befell Brocklebank's MAHSUD at Colombo when she damaged her bow. Again it semed to be a blocked filter that caused the pitch mechanism to go into "get home" mode and full ahead pitch.
By coincidence both ships were of similar vintage although MAHSUD was Swedish built with two 14 cylinder Pielsticks developing about 11600 bhp driving a single screw.
Derek Roger gives an account of MAHSUD's incident.
Can you tell me the power of the Manchester Courage and her sisters?
Thank You
Thanks for the info on the MANCHESTER COURAGE incident.
It seems that this was a similar incident that befell Brocklebank's MAHSUD at Colombo when she damaged her bow. Again it semed to be a blocked filter that caused the pitch mechanism to go into "get home" mode and full ahead pitch.
By coincidence both ships were of similar vintage although MAHSUD was Swedish built with two 14 cylinder Pielsticks developing about 11600 bhp driving a single screw.
Derek Roger gives an account of MAHSUD's incident.
Can you tell me the power of the Manchester Courage and her sisters?
Thank You
Manchester Challenge
Main Engines were 2 Crossley Pielstick 18PC @ 500BHP per Cylinder engines giving a total of 18,000 Bhp.
Engines had camshaft drive Rocker Arm Lubricating Pumps. Rocker arm lub Oil delivery was poor to the Rockers due to the fact that ML supplied cotton waste instead of rags so continual problems with blockages in small bore pipes and drain holes.
Ships ended up on Los Angeles to Japan run but had terrible time getting Engineers.
Pielsticks are heavy maintenance engines burning heavy oil and how I wish slow speed engines were used in this and other ships on long passages.
Main Engines were 2 Crossley Pielstick 18PC @ 500BHP per Cylinder engines giving a total of 18,000 Bhp.
Engines had camshaft drive Rocker Arm Lubricating Pumps. Rocker arm lub Oil delivery was poor to the Rockers due to the fact that ML supplied cotton waste instead of rags so continual problems with blockages in small bore pipes and drain holes.
Ships ended up on Los Angeles to Japan run but had terrible time getting Engineers.
Pielsticks are heavy maintenance engines burning heavy oil and how I wish slow speed engines were used in this and other ships on long passages.
Crossley Pielstick Engines
I take it you are not a great fan of the Crossley Pielstick. You mentioned the high maintenance effort required.
Previously I had asked Derek Roger for his impressions of life with the 2 x 14 cylinder Pielsticks he had as C/E on Brocklebank's MAHSUD and the 7 cylinder Sulzer he had on MAHOUT. So far he has not replied.
In both your cases there seems to a lot of units to maintain plus the normal auxiliary diesel engines (generator/alternators). You indicated the longing for a Doxford.
My only experience of medium speed diesels was 2 - 12 cylinder Deutz of 3200 bhp (total 6400 bhp) each driving twin screws through single reduction gearing on two small container ships in the Caribbean. In this case due to manning levels and sailing schedules, unit maintenance was entrusted to fitters from Tela Railroad Company in Honduras.
The Pielstick seemed to be a very popular engine for period until MAN - B & W and Wartsila became the favourites in this market. I was surprised when the Navy fitted Pielsticks in HMS OCEAN. But there again the Navy seemed to be only one that liked the generally hated Paxman.
I take it you are not a great fan of the Crossley Pielstick. You mentioned the high maintenance effort required.
Previously I had asked Derek Roger for his impressions of life with the 2 x 14 cylinder Pielsticks he had as C/E on Brocklebank's MAHSUD and the 7 cylinder Sulzer he had on MAHOUT. So far he has not replied.
In both your cases there seems to a lot of units to maintain plus the normal auxiliary diesel engines (generator/alternators). You indicated the longing for a Doxford.
My only experience of medium speed diesels was 2 - 12 cylinder Deutz of 3200 bhp (total 6400 bhp) each driving twin screws through single reduction gearing on two small container ships in the Caribbean. In this case due to manning levels and sailing schedules, unit maintenance was entrusted to fitters from Tela Railroad Company in Honduras.
The Pielstick seemed to be a very popular engine for period until MAN - B & W and Wartsila became the favourites in this market. I was surprised when the Navy fitted Pielsticks in HMS OCEAN. But there again the Navy seemed to be only one that liked the generally hated Paxman.
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7 Posts
Nice to see accurate replies from people who must have been on the job, I sailed Manchester Liners for 11 years.
Andy
Andy
Manchester Courage
My uncle was a superintendent with Manchester Liners. The day after his "Manchester Courage" wrecked the lock gates on the Ship Canal, I was given the rush job in Vickers design office at Barrow-in-Furness to dig the drawings of the gates out of the archives, and prepare a new set of plans to utilize welding instead of riveting. Keep it in the family!
My uncle was a superintendent with Manchester Liners. The day after his "Manchester Courage" wrecked the lock gates on the Ship Canal, I was given the rush job in Vickers design office at Barrow-in-Furness to dig the drawings of the gates out of the archives, and prepare a new set of plans to utilize welding instead of riveting. Keep it in the family!
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24 Posts
Hi, back in the late 1980's i worked for a ship repair company based in Ipswich, we use to sail to hamburg and Rotterdam carrying out repairs.
on one trip we stayed over in Rotterdam for a week to weld down bits or bollards as her next trip was to take her through the panama canal and she needed these to get her through.
have posted a photo of her coming into felixstowe as she is different to the 1970 one. and one with her empty in Rotterdam when we were getting her ready for the panama.
As far as i remember this ship was owned by furness withy in the 90's and the name was changed to "cap blanco" not to sure of the spelling thoe I'm sure she was not a "cape"
she ran from felixstowe hamburgh rotterdam or antwerp?? across to south america, panama down the coast and back across to i think spain before coming back to felixstowe.
Any way hope it is of some interest(Thumb)
on one trip we stayed over in Rotterdam for a week to weld down bits or bollards as her next trip was to take her through the panama canal and she needed these to get her through.
have posted a photo of her coming into felixstowe as she is different to the 1970 one. and one with her empty in Rotterdam when we were getting her ready for the panama.
As far as i remember this ship was owned by furness withy in the 90's and the name was changed to "cap blanco" not to sure of the spelling thoe I'm sure she was not a "cape"
she ran from felixstowe hamburgh rotterdam or antwerp?? across to south america, panama down the coast and back across to i think spain before coming back to felixstowe.
Any way hope it is of some interest(Thumb)
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Manchester Challenge (2) Model
Greetings,
Newbie on deck. I just received this Dart Containerline model (7.25"), and have ID'ed her as the SS Manchester Challenge (2).
Assuming it was made for the Dart Containerline, can anyone shed light on who/when/where this detailed waterline model was made?
I'd been looking for a container ship model for awhile, and love this one for its fine lines and chrome plating.
This thread has already answered my questions about the actual ship and her history.
Thanks,
CV57
Greetings,
Newbie on deck. I just received this Dart Containerline model (7.25"), and have ID'ed her as the SS Manchester Challenge (2).
Assuming it was made for the Dart Containerline, can anyone shed light on who/when/where this detailed waterline model was made?
I'd been looking for a container ship model for awhile, and love this one for its fine lines and chrome plating.
This thread has already answered my questions about the actual ship and her history.
Thanks,
CV57
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