[Troppo2]

Hello all

A question has arisen on another forum re the minimum sea service requirement before R/O's were allowed to take a ship by themselves.

I understand it was 6 months on UK flag ships.

My question is - did this apply in 1950?

Thanks.

 

[duncs]

I think it did, Troppo. At the end of WW2 the powers that be were getting rid of the thousands with special tickets. Those with 2nd and 1st would already have had sea time. But new ROs were required, and as such would need 6 mths sea time. Certainly by 1952.
I shall stand corrected, if I'm wrong, by our older RO members.

 

[R309321]

Hello Troppo. The previous reply was correct. 6 months with a 2nd or 1st class ticket sea experience straight from college. Peter

 

[djringjr]

How about during 1940s which was during WWII. Mention had been made of "special tickets" (licenses).

In USA, there is an article online about Gallops Island Radio School and how the newly instructed were able to obtain a full T2 license then be assigned to a ship.

So I believe during WWII there was an exemption for the "Six Months Sea Service" to sail as sole operator.

USA had always had this provision on ships that sailed exclusively inland, on rivers, and on Great Lakes, but that time on rivers and lakes counted toward a 6 month's sea service endorsement.

This is concerning a R/O who was born in 1920 (he has passed away 20 years ago), and he makes a claim that he transferred from 3rd operator on a passenger ship to sole operator on a cargo ship for a man who had been begging for relief as he had been on that ship for more than a year.

Would this have been possible during a shortage of R/O's say during WWII?

73
DR

 

[MikeGDH]

How about during 1940s which was during WWII. Mention had been made of "special tickets" (licenses).

In USA, there is an article online about Gallops Island Radio School and how the newly instructed were able to obtain a full T2 license then be assigned to a ship.

So I believe during WWII there was an exemption for the "Six Months Sea Service" to sail as sole operator.

USA had always had this provision on ships that sailed exclusively inland, on rivers, and on Great Lakes, but that time on rivers and lakes counted toward a 6 month's sea service endorsement.

This is concerning a R/O who was born in 1920 (he has passed away 20 years ago), and he makes a claim that he transferred from 3rd operator on a passenger ship to sole operator on a cargo ship for a man who had been begging for relief as he had been on that ship for more than a year.

Would this have been possible during a shortage of R/O's say during WWII?

73
DR

I started as Trainee R/O with Marconi in Feb of 1954 & did four and half months as such on 'Athellaird'. With less than 6 months service, I then got sent to GSN's 'Albatross' & finished off my 6 months there ON MY OWN. Guess there was some sort of dispensation, although 'Albatross' was on FG Articles.
I may be wrong, but I think that Special tickets were acceptable on trawlers? Maybe someone who served on trawlers could deny or confirm if this was the case?
HNY to All!
Mike.

 

[Troppo2]

OK.

The situation is this.

It is 1950.

The R/O in question has done 6 weeks as 3rd on a pax ship. That's his total sea going experience. He worked for Marconi.

He claims that he transferred to a cargo ship as the only R/O with the approval of the local Marconi depot manager, and the R/O off the cargo ship took his place as 3rd on the pax ship.

6 weeks sea service is all he had.

Is this possible?

 

[aussiesparks]

Just checked my brothers discharge book he was on the MV Tabor as 2nd R/O for one trip of approx. three and a half months in 1956 before becoming 1st R/O on the Loch Morar (he could not have been very happy with that trip as after that he transferred to Blue Funnel.) In that period they were very short of R/Os and would get them out by themselves as soon as possible.
I did not have that much luck, my first trip lasted 9 months on the Baron Kinnaird in 1960, very little work and not much experience and if you have sailed on Baron ships you would know at the end of it we were all glad to see Liverpool again and the back of the ship.

 

[holland25]

Perhaps not exactly the same but I joined my 1st ship on Mar 1st 1956 as 3rd R/O. I signed on my next ship on my own on the 17th of July 1956. A month and a half short of the 6 months. There was a shortage of R/Os in 1956 and I suppose if nobody complained the mandatory 6 months was overlooked. I suppose 1950 would have been no different.

 

[duncs]

I think this is quite possible. He would have done junior on the pax boat, for experience, then put onto a rock dodger, where the 6mnths not required.
Personally, I did 3 mnths as junior on a round voyage, then was sent as 2nd on a pax boat.

 

[trotterdotpom]

#5 . "...I may be wrong, but I think that Special tickets were acceptable on trawlers? Maybe someone who served on trawlers could deny or confirm if this was the case?"

I believe that during the war, Special tickets were what most of the ROs had because of the need to get them away quickly. Also I think the ships had two ROs, is that right?

Presumably Special tickets were banned from cargo ships after the war. I don't know when it started but by the '60s, you could only use a Special on ships not compulsorily fitted with W/T, i.e trawlers and tugs.

Because trawlers weren't compulsorily fitted with W/T, even though they did carry it, sea time on trawlers didn't count towards the 6 months required on cargo ships, etc.

John T

 

[Troppo2]

I think this is quite possible. He would have done junior on the pax boat, for experience, then put onto a rock dodger, where the 6mnths not required.
Personally, I did 3 mnths as junior on a round voyage, then was sent as 2nd on a pax boat.

Yes, but 6 weeks seems awfully short...

 

[gordonarfur]

I believe that during the war cargo ships carried 3/RO,s so that continuous watch could be kept for obvious reasons. Around 1947 I believe that those with special tickets had to upgrade to PMG 2 or leave. Specials were still accepted on non compulsory ships under 1601 tons? which allowed trawlers etc to carry an R/O if they wished

 

[Stephen J. Card]

Why the shortage of R/O's in the 1950s? There were THOUSANDS of females capable operators during the war. Not just as 'key operators', they could have quickly gained the full knowledge of the job. Lost opportunity.

 

[gordonarfur]

The majority of ships which survived the war were either Liberty or prewar bangers. No facilities for women and there happens to be a lot more to being an R/O than banging a morse key so they would as a minimum have to study for a PMG 2 the same as the men, can,t really see that happening in any great number can you?

 

[Vic Heaney]

If 6 weeks was short, try 29 days

Yes, but 6 weeks seems awfully short...

My first and only voyage as understudy (to the great John Reid) was only 29 days, much of that not at sea.

I signed on the Manchester Spinner on 2nd March, 1957, voyaged to Halifax, Nova Scotia and St John, New Brunswick and Albany, New York State. I was released from the ship at Ellesmere Port on 31st March.

A few days later I was signed on as sole R/O to the MV Kildale, which took two months to go to the states and back because it kept breaking down, both in port and at sea.

I was not yet 17 years of age.

 

[Gordon L Smeaton]

Mid 60's with BP did my probationary trip on British Hussar, after two months and twenty three days was given dispensation to sail as R/O, was never given any reason why. Was just turned 17 and green as the grass, but survived. Stayed at sea till retirement.

 

[sparkie2182]

First time I ever heard of anyone putting in to Albany NY State.
Interesting.

Also.....

How many years served at sea, Gordon.?

 

[Gordon L Smeaton]

Joined BP Nov 66 stayed with them till 2006 then went contracting leaving my final vessel in 2012 so a total of 46 years, from 86 on wards was always on DP boats, dive ,construction, DP FPSO, pipelayer ,DP shuttle tankers.

 

[Varley]

First time I ever heard of anyone putting in to Albany NY State.
Interesting.

Also.....

How many years served at sea, Gordon.?

My first trip 'on my own' complete with dispensation as only 4.x months on Texaco Denmark. Fyffes' Tilapa. Albany (capital of NY state) was an early call.

 

[Basil]

Varley, can't recollect if mentioned previously but when were you on Tilapa?
I was 4/E 8/8/63 - 26/11/63