Ships Nostalgia banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I discovered recently that my grandfather died when his ship, SS Tregarthen, was torpedoed. He was a Fireman/trimmer and I have become obsessed with what his working life was like. I would be interested in looking at plans for a tramp steamer of this kind and would appreciate any help in finding them
Thanks
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,848 Posts
s.s. TREGARTHEN Hains Nourse. The vessel was sunk 6 June 1941. Of the complement I believe just on survivor.

What was your Grandfather's name?

The ship is rather simple 5 hatch general cargo tween decker. She was carrying coal.

Here is a photo of the ship. I have the Crew List as well.
686889
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,848 Posts
NameTregarthen
Type:Steam merchant
Tonnage5,201 tons
Completed1936 - Lithgows Ltd, Port Glasgow
OwnerThe Hain Steamship Co Ltd, London
HomeportLondon
Date of attack6 Jun 1941Nationality:
British
FateSunk by U-48 (Herbert Schultze)
Position46° 17'N, 36° 20'W - Grid BD 4827
Complement45 (45 dead - no survivors)
ConvoyOB-329 (dispersed)
RouteCardiff - Kingston, Jamaica
Cargo7800 tons of coal
HistoryCompleted in September 1936
Notes on eventAt 23.25 hours on 6 June 1941 the unescorted Tregarthen (Master Leonard Daniel), dispersed on 5 June from convoy OB-329 in 51°48N/20°48W, was hit in the stern by two torpedoes from U-48 north-northwest of the Azores. The ship capsized and sank within three minutes. The master, 41 crew members and three gunners were lost.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,848 Posts
SS Tregarthen
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Jump to navigationJump to search
General characteristics
United Kingdom
History
Name:Tregarthen
Owner:Hain Steam Ship Co
Port of registry:London
Builder:Lithgows, Port Glasgow
Yard number:884
Launched:30 July 1936
Completed:September 1936
Identification:
Fate:sunk by torpedo, 6 June 1941
Type:cargo ship
Tonnage:5,201 GRT, 3,067 NRT
Length:432.3 ft (131.8 m)
Beam:56.2 ft (17.1 m)
Draught:24 ft 9 in (7.54 m)
Depth:24.8 ft (7.6 m)
Decks:1
Installed power:469 NHP
Propulsion:
Speed:11 knots (20 km/h)
Crew:42 + 3 DEMS gunners
Sensors and
processing systems:
wireless direction finding
Notes:sister ship: Trewellard
SS Tregarthen was a cargo steamship that was built in Scotland for the Hain Steam Ship Co in 1936. She was sunk with all hands by a U-boat in 1941 in the Battle of the Atlantic.
She was the third ship to be called Tregarthen in the Hain SS Co fleet. The first was a steamship that was launched in 1904, sold in 1911 and renamed.[1] The second was a steamship that was launched in 1913, sold in 1933 and renamed.[2]
Contents
Building[edit]
In 1936 Lithgows built a pair of steamships in its Port Glasgow shipyard for the Hain SS Co. Trewellard was launched on 16 June 1936 and completed that July.[3] Her sister ship Tregarthen was launched on 30 July and completed that September.[4]
Tregarthen's registered length was 432.3 ft (131.8 m), her beam was 56.2 ft (17.1 m) and her depth was 24.8 ft (7.6 m). Her tonnages were 5,201 GRT and 3,067 NRT.[5]
Tregarthen had a single screw. David Rowan and Co of Glasgow built her engines. Her main propulsion was a three-cylinder triple expansion steam engine. Exhaust steam from its low-pressure cylinder drove a low-pressure steam turbine, which in turn drove a steam compressor. Her turbine drove the same propeller as her piston engine. Between them the two engines were rated at 469 NHP[5] and gave Tregarthen a speed of 11 knots (20 km/h).[6]
Second World War service[edit]
In the Second World War Tregarthen mostly made transatlantic crossings, bringing either grain or iron and steel from North America to Britain, and on one occasion taking coal from Britain to Canada.[7] In March 1940 she took coal from Britain to Freetown in Sierra Leone.[8] She returned to Britain that May carrying iron ore.[9] In July 1940 she took coal from Canada to Reykjavík in Canadian-occupied Iceland.[10]
Tregarthen made each of her eastbound Atlantic crossings with the protection of an HX convoy from Halifax, Nova Scotia to Britain.[7] In September 1940 she was Rear Admiral HH Rogers' commodore ship in Convoy HX 72, which lost 11 ships to a U-boat wolf pack attack.[11]
Tregarthen began most of her westbound Atlantic crossings with the protection of an OB (Outward Bound) convoy.[7] In March 1941 she took part on Convoy OB 293, whose escorts sank two U-boats including U-47.[12]
Loss[edit]
On 24 May 1941 Tregarthen left Cardiff carrying 7,800 tons of coal bound for Kingston, Jamaica.[13] Off Milford Haven she joined Convoy OB 327, which took her out into the Atlantic and dispersed on 1 June.[14]
At 2325 hrs on 6 June Tregarthen was in mid-Atlantic when two torpedoes fired by U-48 hit her in the stern. She capsized and sank within three minutes, killing all 42 of her crew and her three DEMS gunners.[13]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you for that information.
I have also found old reports of the British invasion of Iceland and the role she played. Also shipping movement cards with descriptions of bomb and ice damage. What a life they led! I'm now fascinated by the merchant navy during the war.
I would love to know if plans exist for such ships. What the layout of the stokehold was particularly interests me. I have seen some incredible photographs.
I will be remembering my grandfather Arthur and his brother Joseph together with the crew of Tregarthen on the anniversary of the sinking in June.
The sacrifice the merchant navy made must not be for forgotten.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
263 Posts
The National Maritime Museum, Greenwich, holds plans for 117 Lithgow ships built between 1920 and 945. Glasgow University Archives may hold photographs of the ship.

Dave W
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
That looks interesting. Where could I get to see the boiler room and bunkers on the plans? Are they online.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,848 Posts
That looks interesting. Where could I get to see the boiler room and bunkers on the plans? Are they online.
The upper part of the plan shows... 'coal bunker' one on port and one on starboard. Boiler is partly seen.

Not sure if this ship was oil fired or coal fired. She was built 1936. Might have been either. I suspect she was coal fired. In the crew list she carried nine 'Fireman & Trimmer'. Three on each watch... coal fired!

Stephen
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have seen a couple of plans now. It looks like some vessels had the coal bunkers on the same level as the boilers with a corridor connecting them and others (smaller ships I think) seem to have the bunkers above with a chute feeding the stokehold. Having said that I have only two plans! I will be investigating the plans for Tregarthen which I found at NMM (thanks for that lead wightspirit)
What a great community. Thanks for your help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
682 Posts
Looked at the rest of the photos I have and can only come up with a couple more of the engine space. These were US built ships, but similar layout.
686909
686910
686911
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,755 Posts
At DuckDuckGo — Privacy, simplified. I just keyed:
US flag ships Liners or Tramps
Resulting in this link:

This information confirms my perception liners are on a fixed schedule while tramps may not be.

I did it because I was not aware that ships are designed specifically as tramps?

As this thread suggests?

I recall back in my Da Nang days, we tramps would be alongside at De Long finger piers for days if not weeks - depending upon cargo - while liners arrived at dawn one day and departed before sunset that day. I never sailed a liner.

One ship, a Fueled Vehicle Carrier, we delivered 1,000 brand new US Army Jeeps. At first they discharged day and night, but after a few deadly collisions after dark, the rest of the discharge was only during daylight. They had a whole bunch of US Army Personnel, who each would drive a jeep off the pier to a staging area, where they were lined up in tight rows. The whole bunch of drivers would be brought back to the pier in 6 x 6 US Army open trucks. There would be two groups running most days.

Army personnel and ships deck officers counted the jeeps as they were discharged. When we were all done discharging the Army tally was 999 while the ship's records said 1,000. The army agreed they must have missed one.

Wrong there were only 999. Since sailing over to "Nam a senior ships officer stole one. Everyone onboard knew it. He broke it down into wooden crates that he built, then stored them in a storeroom. Back at OAT - Oakland Army Terminal - a few days after we had arrived, the officer went up town and rented a U-Haul pickup truck. That he drove down to the ship's side and had the wooden crates lowered.

He drove out the gate of OAT straight to a trucking company where he shipped the crates via truck to his Long Island NY home. When he was home on vacation he spray painted EVERY thing pink, then assembled it in a Long Island Jeep 'style'. He never tried to register it. Instead he borrowed the plates off one of his cars, and he only drove it in the cool of the evening after dark and certainly not on the LIE.

After his Vacation when he was back on board sailing someone stole his Jeep and crashed it on the Long Island Expressway and ran off never to be found. There were all these tv and newspaper articles about this crashed mysterious pink jeep, that the US Army insists was somewhere in Nam, although USA seemed to have misplaced it.

All the ships I sailed offshore were WW II built. At wars end shipyards had contracts to build cargo ships that were completed. The ships were low mileage for 'Nam, since they only sailed from the shipyard to the closest Reserve Fleet then were properly laid up. They sailed only during wars Korea and 'Nam. As such with proper maintenance they had very reliable steam plants. I sailed like new cargo ships that had not done Korea.

Attached:
danang-De-Long-Pier.jpg
danang-De-Long-Pier-2.jpg
Fueled-Vehicle-Carrier-E.jpg
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,874 Posts
At DuckDuckGo — Privacy, simplified. I just keyed:
US flag ships Liners or Tramps
Resulting in this link:

This information confirms my perception liners are on a fixed schedule while tramps may not be.

I did it because I was not aware that ships are designed specifically as tramps?

As this thread suggests?

I recall back in my Da Nang days, we tramps would be alongside at De Long finger piers for days if not weeks - depending upon cargo - while liners arrived at dawn one day and departed before sunset that day. I never sailed a liner.

One ship, a Fueled Vehicle Carrier, we delivered 1,000 brand new US Army Jeeps. At first they discharged day and night, but after a few deadly collisions after dark, the rest of the discharge was only during daylight. They had a whole bunch of US Army Personnel, who each would drive a jeep off the pier to a staging area, where they were lined up in tight rows. The whole bunch of drivers would be brought back to the pier in 6 x 6 US Army open trucks. There would be two groups running most days.

Army personnel and ships deck officers counted the jeeps as they were discharged. When we were all done discharging the Army tally was 999 while the ship's records said 1,000. The army agreed they must have missed one.

Wrong there were only 999. Since sailing over to "Nam a senior ships officer stole one. Everyone onboard knew it. He broke it down into wooden crates that he built, then stored them in a storeroom. Back at OAT - Oakland Army Terminal - a few days after we had arrived, the officer went up town and rented a U-Haul pickup truck. That he drove down to the ship's side and had the wooden crates lowered.

He drove out the gate of OAT straight to a trucking company where he shipped the crates via truck to his Long Island NY home. When he was home on vacation he spray painted EVERY thing pink, then assembled it in a Long Island Jeep 'style'. He never tried to register it. Instead he borrowed the plates off one of his cars, and he only drove it in the cool of the evening after dark and certainly not on the LIE.

After his Vacation when he was back on board sailing someone stole his Jeep and crashed it on the Long Island Expressway and ran off never to be found. There were all these tv and newspaper articles about this crashed mysterious pink jeep, that the US Army insists was somewhere in Nam, although USA seemed to have misplaced it.

All the ships I sailed offshore were WW II built. At wars end shipyards had contracts to build cargo ships that were completed. The ships were low mileage for 'Nam, since they only sailed from the shipyard to the closest Reserve Fleet then were properly laid up. They sailed only during wars Korea and 'Nam. As such with proper maintenance they had very reliable steam plants. I sailed like new cargo ships that had not done Korea.

Attached:
danang-De-Long-Pier.jpg
danang-De-Long-Pier-2.jpg
Fueled-Vehicle-Carrier-E.jpg
All true about the 1945 Victory ships that went straight into the reserve fleet, but some companies were careless in getting them back into service, I saw lines snap while handling cargo and heard about other instances, the longshoremen were not amused.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
234 Posts
US navy reserve fleet Beaumont Texas 1976. Not sure if they were Liberty or Victory ships. The other photos are of the SS American Victory in Tampa 2013. The MPT training School in Fort Lauderdale uses it to teach the launching of lifeboats. We were told by the volunteers on the ship that it can still sail and is taken out once a year for a trip round the bay.

686919

P4061165.JPG

686922
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,848 Posts
John, The photos here is a Victory ship and the 'fleet' in teh photo as also Victory ship... plus a few

"T2" 'oilers' as well.

Stephen
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
I discovered recently that my grandfather died when his ship, SS Tregarthen, was torpedoed. He was a Fireman/trimmer and I have become obsessed with what his working life was like. I would be interested in looking at plans for a tramp steamer of this kind and would appreciate any help in finding them
Thanks
I discovered recently that my grandfather died when his ship, SS Tregarthen, was torpedoed. He was a Fireman/trimmer and I have become obsessed with what his working life was like. I would be interested in looking at plans for a tramp steamer of this kind and would appreciate any help in finding them
Thanks
2 good posts on SN this time.... Firstly Ellermans ... I spent a few good years deep sea as an engineer on some of their fine steam and motor vessels ... Happy days ! Secondly the 'Tregarthen' My late father lost his one and only elder brother when she was torpedoed .... Stanley Walter Broughton who was the first radio officer .... He had previously served on the P&O liner Narkunda which was sunk in the Med.... He was a compass adjuster / instrument mechanic in civilian life and reputed to be looking towards a technical career with the BBC post war due to his exceptional abilities .... My father had some senior officer contacts in the post war German navy who had access to the U boat archives in Kiel so he carried out a lot of research on the sinking .....I have all the material [ letters, telegrams etc] in a dedicated file of which I am quite prepared to photocopy and send on to you should you be interested .....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Oh my goodness yes. That would be very interesting to look at at. I have the some information including shipping movements and a large report from the time of the invasion of Iceland that describes Tregarthen's role.
My shelves are now bulging under the weight of books on the Merchant Navy during the war despite the fact I have never been to sea myself. The closest I got was on a specially commissioned fishing vessel to see the eclipse out near Alderney. I remember that out of 16 passengers only myself and my brother weren't seasick. The captain asked if we had the sea in our blood - if only I had known at the time that so many of my ancestors were in the Merchant Navy. Can you tell I'm more than a little proud of them.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,848 Posts
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top