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Re refrig cargo. My first trip in MN was 8th eng. on Bullard King Umgeni. She had one of these enormous Hall steam recip.compressors, and it was the duty of the junior to go around and take readings on the night watch. This entailed unscrewing deck plugs and lowering a thermometer down into the chamber. As these were mostly in the passenger accom. alleyways the chore was eagerly sought by all, leading to many nocturnal trysts which were otherwise unobtainable!
Hi, I sailed on the Umgeni when she became the Winnibar of ED line fame [every day labour] and I can vouch for the enormous size of the Halls compressors and the heat on the middles when off the African coast, they were beasts indeed. One of the perks was dipping the Palm Oil Tanks, as you so rightly say. Regards Orcades(Pint)
 

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Hello to all Could you help me with something because I can see you are all very experienced is it possible to add oil in AC system or refrigeration system without evacuating the system? Thanks
 

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BB- There are a few different ways to accomplish this....

1) The first question is always this- does the compressor need oil- remember that the system generally has to get pumped down to ascertain the correct oil level... More often than not, most reefer and ac units have too much oil- which in turn can be problematic in expansion valves and solenoid valves...

2) You can add oil to a recip compressor a couple of different ways-
Pump down the system, isolate the compressor, purge a hand oil pump and
then add oil- make sure that you don't add any air...

You can accomplish this when it's running also- use the oil fill connection.

3) After an overhaul or sump mucking, evacuate the isolated compressor through the oil drain connection, isolate and then fill the oil sump accordingly- ensuring that you don't introduce air into the oil or the compressor oil sump...

4) Some large systems have a provision to pump oil into the sump whether running or off line...
 

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I believe that with an automotive system it is necessary to evacuate the system to ensure it is recharged to the correct proportions of oil and refrigerant - there appears no means of determining the amount of oil in the system when it is in operation. When I got mine done I got a print out of what had been extracted and refilled - over 7 years it had lost half of its gas and all of the oil.
 

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Well thanks for reply I'm just starting like engineer on a tanker and it is very interesting to but in a same time very complicated to see seniors working around AC and refrigeration.I could not get many explanations on board so would somebody explain to me when one compressor is running in a ship refrigeration plant how do I stop and start the other one? Is there any explanation somewhere or how to do it step by step?
 

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BB- This is dependent on what kind of system you are changing over... Domestic Reefers (for the Refrigerated Stores Boxes) and AC Units are sometime differently laid out.

On a combined domestic refrigeration system with two separate compressors and receivers on a common piping system, first pump down the on line system by closing the receiver outlet liquid line valve and then as you feel the line downstream of the valve cool off, close the drier outlet of that system.

After ascertaining that there's proper oil, refrigerant and that the cooling water, compressor discharge valves are fully open, switch the controls over to the incoming compressor, open the drier outlet valve, crack open the receiver outlet valve- start the compressor and slowly open the compressor suction valve (this will ensure that you don't liquid slug the compressor) and when the unit starts to run, open the receiver outlet wide. Observe your pressure, temperatures, be mindful of the compressor shaft seal...

On systems with separate coils and piping, check the oil and refrigerant levels, simply open the compressor discharge, cooling water valves, liquid line valves, start the compressor and slowly open the suction valve....
 

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thank you very much for this explanation because I was confused between this two systems (AC and refrigeration) AC has totally separated two units but refrigeration (provision) one has common delivery and return lines.Now I have to dig more deeper :). This is what was complicated to me because if I pump down the on line system how do I transfer freon from this unit to incoming unit? I mean in this combined system running and stby compressor are using the same freon from the piping.
 

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I hope he's got PI insurance then!

Seriously. On some Linked in Groups, either by ignorance or deliberately, lousy and misleading responses are sometimes fed to undoubtedly ignorant innocents. I have left one group because of it. Not funny.
 

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Phil,
A very moving and tragic story. How some of the legal profession can sleep at night beats me.
Gordy
I occasionally wonder about that. I think one of the primary attributes to being a successful lawyer is being an absolute ***t to start off with.
 

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There is ubdoubtedly a wealth of hard earned engineering and nautical knowledge available on SN.
However a chap would need to be very careful before giving or using advice from this forum, as in the art world provenance is vital.
 

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Really Serang?

Provenance- "the place of origin or earliest known history of something."

What exactly do you mean by the above statement? Yes, if a lad at sea needs help, it will be more than a pleasure to assist- that's what good Chief Engineer's do.....
 

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Steamer 659, I agree with you. Nobody values the help and advice handed down over the years more than me, and I hope some of my advice was taken on board by the junior engineers I sailed with.
However things have changed in the shipping world, Risk, risk is the current buzzword and it must be eliminated or reduced to as low as reasonably practicable. All decisions should have a paper trail and if something goes wrong a Surveyor/Inspector/Auditor will carry out a Root Cause Analysis. Tell him that one of your actions was based on information you gleaned from a chap on the internet and this I guess, would result in a Major Non Conformity and a slap on the wrist. Thus my assertion that advice must be from a source that can be authenticated.
 

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Steamer659. I agree with you on this one. How do you gain knowledge without some instruction. I sail on refrigerated cargo ship and have very basic understanding of what was involved.
I purchased a volume of W.J. Fox's Marine Auxiliary Machinery which covers all aspects of ships plant apart from the Main Engines. It has a section on Refrigeration and another on Heating, Ventilating and Air Conditioning. I found it a great help when trying understand how some pieces of machinery work.
If BBKING is still watching this thread try and find a book which covers this subject.
Bill
 

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There really is no training that is better than doing the actual work hands on. On The Job Training. Hence shipboard unlicensed ratings begin with an entry rating of Wiper, OS or Food Handler. That is the way I learned, by doing it. I was a Coalpasser, Wiper, F/WT and Oiler spread over six years.

I had the very good fortune to be taken under the wing of a fellow named Jim McKillip for whom I Oiled two years. In truth Jim was Lazy, he preferred to spend his watch in the air-conditioned engine room office, reading paperback novels. While I did my work and his. But I was eager to learn that is why I was there.

I recall one early morning 0000-0400 watch I was testing boiler water when the C/E Louis Vieu, unexpectedly for the early hour, came below. He did not say anything to me, but looked at me a few times, while he was getting his coffee. But then he went up to the office and talked with Jim. A short while later when the C/E was returning topside he said to me 'keep up the good work'.

Months later in the fall, all of the engineers were up forward fixing a broken hatch crane. On my relief round I discovered the electric motor driving the online boiler water feed pump, coupling end bearing, glowing white-hot.

I dashed up and told the F/WT I was going to stop and that is what I did stopped the main engine. Then I ran below and started the backup feed pump. I had that running and the other secured and was bringing the main engine back up to speed. When I was descended upon by five engineers lead by a livid 1 A/E who was screaming and spitting in my face.

Louis Vieu told all the engineers to go up to the office and he would be along shortly. I told Louis what I saw and what I did. Louis said 'in the future when this happens run the telegraph to stop and ignore the ringing telephone. Good job."

I envied State School Ship engineer grads they were provided with the OJT along with a formal college education sans sports teams and the like. Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Texas, California and, now, Great Lakes Academy.

Kings Point was more college than OJT Kings Point competed with local colleges in sailing and rowing and possibly other sports? Kings Point folks got a very good education but their OJT was left to US flag ship's crew, where they were 'Cadets' for a few weeks each summer.

The state schools students live aboard ship year round and begin as wipers or OS and progress up the unlicensed ratings year to year. They stand the watches, maintain and operate the plant in their roles as F/WT and Oiler. Summers they go for a long distance cruise.

Greg Hayden
Vista, CA USA
 

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How would our marine refrigeration engineer client, David Blackburn, have come into contact with asbestos? He has unfortunately died of mesothelioma and his family need help with how he came into contact with it. He worked for J & E Hall (Dartford) as an apprentice engineer from 1946 to 1948 and he was then in merchant navy from 1948 to 1959 as a refrigeration engineer on cargo ships including the SS Himalaya, Queen of Bermuda, MV Nottingham, SS Corinth, MV Cedrio, MV Canopic, Southern Cross. Any help would be much appreciated.
 

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Engine Room staff were always in touch with asbestos, I was always assisting an engineer to pack and wrap pipes in the engine room, even painting them with whitewash would make the dust from the particles fly in the air.
 
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