Ships Nostalgia banner
1 - 20 of 58 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i am trying to find out what fuel the royal yacht used when refueling in portsmouth ,i have been told it was clag then i was told klag,then f f o ,whatever that is,and finished up with diesel.surley the captain didnt say fill her up with clag.hope you can help
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,935 Posts
Rusty,

She did use 'Clag'..... up until 1984. Then they burnt Diesel in the furnaces. Never mind Portsmouth, they would have to take bunkers abroad or from RFA tankers as required. She did go out to Hong Kong... what year? She had to refuel for that long voyage so definitely not enough to take the load from Portsmouth.

Stephen
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,935 Posts
HMY went to HK for the handover in July 1997. In December 1997 the ship was decommissioned at Portsmouth. Heavens.... 24 years.... must required a bit of chipping and painting for these days!

Stephen
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,587 Posts
FFO - aka furnace oil and very similar to domestic heating oil.
It is the distilling fraction between diesel and heavy oils considered ideal for use in smaller atomising burners.
Obsolete in ships nowadays but likely that some ships including HMY used it quite late in the day or until the systems were adapted. That's would explain the idea of a 'special fuel tank'
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
FFO - aka furnace oil and very similar to domestic heating oil.
It is the distilling fraction between diesel and heavy oils considered ideal for use in smaller atomising burners.
Obsolete in ships nowadays but likely that some ships including HMY used it quite late in the day or until the systems were adapted. That's would expla,,in the idea of a 'special fuel tank'
my dad was chief on the northella,.themod charted her for five years for training r n cadets they used portsmouth to gib for nav training,northella[2] h206 was owned by marr hull, and was a mix of marr crew,and R N crew, and the northella used fuel ment for brittania.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,679 Posts
At work, we used 32 second diesel in our GTs and it worked as a good substitute for 28 second oil normally used in household oil boilers!

JJ.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
my dad was chief on the northella,.themod charted her for five years for training r n cadets they used portsmouth to gib for nav training,northella[2] h206 was owned by marr hull, and was a mix of marr crew,and R N crew, and the northella used fuel ment for brittania.
would the northella [2] H206,have been , HMS NORTHELLA,on her mod charter?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,935 Posts
FFO - aka furnace oil and very similar to domestic heating oil.
It is the distilling fraction between diesel and heavy oils considered ideal for use in smaller atomising burners.
Obsolete in ships nowadays but likely that some ships including HMY used it quite late in the day or until the systems were adapted. That's would explain the idea of a 'special fuel tank'
Special tank? The thing is the ships had to be bunkered all around the world, not just in Portsmouth. The RFA went out to the Far East with BRITANNIA. In the earlier years BRITANNIA went out with escort ships, mostly steam vessels. I cannot see that they could get special fuels at every portm unless a RFA oil came past.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Special tank? The thing is the ships had to be bunkered all around the world, not just in Portsmouth. The RFA went out to the Far East with BRITANNIA. In the earlier years BRITANNIA went out with escort ships, mostly steam vessels. I cannot see that they could get special fuels at every portm unless a RFA oil came past.
i am asking about portsmouth, not ports around the world.we may need a BRITANNIA eng. know any? regards colin rudd.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,587 Posts
Special tank? The thing is the ships had to be bunkered all around the world, not just in Portsmouth. The RFA went out to the Far East with BRITANNIA. In the earlier years BRITANNIA went out with escort ships, mostly steam vessels. I cannot see that they could get special fuels at every portm unless a RFA oil came past.
You are not gettting my drift. When FFO was in general use it would have been available all around the world. When it was replaced by other fuels then maybe some bunkering points would have kept some available if required. To the common matelot it would be a 'special' tank, not for their use. Thus are legends formed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You are not gettting my drift. When FFO was in general use it would have been available all around the world. When it was replaced by other fuels then maybe some bunkering points would have kept some available if required. To the common matelot it would be a 'special' tank, not for their use. Thus are legends formed.
i think i get it,thank you for your help,regards colin r.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,935 Posts
OK... HMY used FFO.... then why this littkle problem:

RE HMY going down to Falklands:


.....you are quite correct in quoting the official reason. This caused a little bit of mirth amongst the crews of Uganda and Canberra, (can't speak for the Black Pig,) different company. As they both burned the same FFO as HMY.Also Canberra did carry out at 3 RAS(L)s so there was spare fuel afloat in the RFAs as well. Of course HMY's range inbetween refueling may have been an issue.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,935 Posts
What is the difference between Bunker C and FFO? Seems to be the same.

Bunker fuel or bunker crude is technically any type of fuel oil used aboard vessels. Its name is derived from coal bunkers, where the fuel was originally stored. The Australian Customs and the Australian Tax Office defines a bunker fuel as the fuel that powers the engine of a ship or aircraft. Bunker A is No. 4 fuel oil, bunker B is No. 5, and bunker C is No. 6. Since No. 6 is the most common, "bunker fuel" is often used as a synonym for No. 6. No. 5 fuel oil is also called Navy Special Fuel Oil (NSFO) or just navy special; No. 5 or 6 are also commonly called heavy fuel oil (HFO) or furnace fuel oil (FFO); the high viscosity requires heating, usually by a recirculated low pressure steam system, before the oil can be pumped from a bunker tank. Bunkers are rarely labeled this way in modern maritime practice
 

·
Malim Sahib Moderator
Joined
·
8,612 Posts
All the big RFA's, large merchant ships (STUFT), Fearless/Intrepid and Hermes all burnt the same heavy oil back in '82.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,935 Posts
Thanks James. So BRITANNIA was using the same stuff as well? The stuff spread around the deck after a spill was the same shi*t to clean up?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,679 Posts
In power stations it was called RFO - residual fuel oil and was considered the shyte left after everything else was cracked. Easily burnt though when heated and as far as I can remember, was 19000BTU/lb. Far too good to waste in the refinery process. Back before the Arabs hiked the oil prices, it was cheaper than coal (British) and many power stations were converted from coal to oil firing. Mostly smaller plant, more remote from mining areas, up to about 200MW per boiler. Obviously, not being able to reduce the furnace heights, MCR output was reduced by about 15% but overall costs were lower. I had 2 sets of overalls a year but that's not important at all!!

JJ.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,530 Posts
Sailed with quite a few steam engineers that opined that steam would return as you could burn nearly anything in a boiler, provided you could heat it, not so with Dr Diesel's Infernal Combustion Engine. No doubt the dash toward hydrogen to reduce CO2 and NOx has changed that dynamic - mind you hydrogen burns quite hot so NOx may still be a problem!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Sailed with quite a few steam engineers that opined that steam would return as you could burn nearly anything in a boiler, provided you could heat it, not so with Dr Diesel's Infernal Combustion Engine. No doubt the dash toward hydrogen to reduce CO2 and NOx has changed that dynamic - mind you hydrogen burns quite hot so NOx may still be a problem!!
i only wanted to find out what fuel BRITANNIA used .in portsmouth....thanks for your post i will now consult a professor of fuel regards colin r.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,402 Posts
In power stations it was called RFO - residual fuel oil and was considered the shyte left after everything else was cracked. Easily burnt though when heated and as far as I can remember, was 19000BTU/lb. Far too good to waste in the refinery process. Back before the Arabs hiked the oil prices, it was cheaper than coal (British) and many power stations were converted from coal to oil firing. Mostly smaller plant, more remote from mining areas, up to about 200MW per boiler. Obviously, not being able to reduce the furnace heights, MCR output was reduced by about 15% but overall costs were lower. I had 2 sets of overalls a year but that's not important at all!!

JJ.
Dear JJ,

I was going to put "Dear John," but on this site, it doesn't sound at all right!

I was Mechanical Expert and then, from 1st May 1998 to April 1999, Site Technical Officer on the conversion of Petacalco 6x340 MW power station from HFO to coal. We were building the port facilities, storage patio, transport conveyors and feed system to the boiler bunkers. I was SIMC - Internal system of coal management, i.e. In the power station.

One of my surveys was to review the burner positions in the Mitsubishi Boilers. I clearly remember that on HFO, there were eight corner-installed burners. For coal, this was doubled to sixteen, due to the lower Btu of coal. Also, I reviewed additional soot blowers, due to the increased ash from coal. I presented, and it was accepted, an alternative ash removal/handling/storage system to permit the change over, as the company was not allowed to do both the coal system and ash system. I was working for Techint of Italy/Argentina, an experience which still has ties to my current employment (dealing with Italian companies, such as Technip, Italpimanti etc.).

It was a great experience and CV highlight - We were given 12 months to finish and the project went into comissioning in ten months! The project auditors (fixed price/concept and payment for advance - eventually BOT - was by McLellan, with whom I formed a relationship and was eventually offered a position, however, I had already accepted my current job!).

BTW, the Mitsubishi steam generators had been built as "dual fuel", and, as part of my role, I accompanied and organized a survey of the existing flange, etc., for the bottom ash removal system.

Best Regards,
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,679 Posts
Dear JJ,

I was going to put "Dear John," but on this site, it doesn't sound at all right!

I was Mechanical Expert and then, from 1st May 1998 to April 1999, Site Technical Officer on the conversion of Petacalco 6x340 MW power station from HFO to coal. We were building the port facilities, storage patio, transport conveyors and feed system to the boiler bunkers. I was SIMC - Internal system of coal management, i.e. In the power station.

One of my surveys was to review the burner positions in the Mitsubishi Boilers. I clearly remember that on HFO, there were eight corner-installed burners. For coal, this was doubled to sixteen, due to the lower Btu of coal. Also, I reviewed additional soot blowers, due to the increased ash from coal. I presented, and it was accepted, an alternative ash removal/handling/storage system to permit the change over, as the company was not allowed to do both the coal system and ash system. I was working for Techint of Italy/Argentina, an experience which still has ties to my current employment (dealing with Italian companies, such as Technip, Italpimanti etc.).

It was a great experience and CV highlight - We were given 12 months to finish and the project went into comissioning in ten months! The project auditors (fixed price/concept and payment for advance - eventually BOT - was by McLellan, with whom I formed a relationship and was eventually offered a position, however, I had already accepted my current job!).

BTW, the Mitsubishi steam generators had been built as "dual fuel", and, as part of my role, I accompanied and organized a survey of the existing flange, etc., for the bottom ash removal system.

Best Regards,
Thanks, Makko. I've read many of your interesting posts on here. Probably, as you, I could write a lot about my experiences working with different boilers and associated plant and maybe a few mishaps as well!! Most of my experience was CEGB derived except for more than a few secondments with other firms, like Babcocks and Aramco.

Best regards, JJ.
 
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
Top