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Discussion starter · #21 ·
Brent was operated by the P.L.A immediately after the War when my Dad worked for the dredging department of the Authority. He was amazed that she was still in existence so many years later.
Roy this extracted from the book typifies the detail of one of 182 vessel histories

T.I.D. 159 c/s GCML
O.N. 181130. 54g. 0n. 65.0 x 17.0 x 7.4 feet.
C.2-cyl. (12½” and 26” x 18”) by John Dickinson and Sons Ltd., Sunderland. Boiler by John G. Kincaid and Co. Ltd.,
Greenock. Oil fuel. 220 IHP. 8.5 knots.
05.11.1945: (Ministry Job No. A/MS/1368) launched by Wm. Pickersgill and Sons Ltd., Sunderland (Yard No. 286) for the
Ministry of War Transport, London, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
09.04.1946: Registered at Sunderland, vessel No.10 of 1946.
12.04.1946: Completed for the Ministry of Transport, London, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle,Hull, manager at the Ministry). Placed in lay-up under care and maintenance of Townsend Bros. (Ferries) Ltd.,London.
xx.091946: Sold to the Port of London Authority.,London.
17.10.1946: Registered in London, vessel No.378 of 1946.
28.02.1947: Registered as BRENT.
xx.07.1970:Sold to the Stour Salvage Co. Ltd., Mistley, for demolition.
01.06.1971: Sold to Ron and Janet Hall, Maldon, for preservation.
20.06.1971: Berthed at Hythe, Maldon. Regularly in steam on the East Coast and further afield.
xx.08.1994: Placed in lay-up due to boiler concerns.
xx.10.2002: Dry-docked at Maldon. Bottom overplated and hull partially re-plated.
21.12.2010: The Steam Tug Brent Trust formed.
10.07.2011: Vessel placed in the ownership of the Trust.
2019: Still in existence. Restoration in progress
 
NZ's Equivalent

A consortium of NZ boatbuilders with limited experience in steel built around 20 YTLs for the US Army for service in the Pacific during WW2. The first few were built in Australia and deemed unsafe but with some tweaks to the lines done by the RNZN Dockyard, they proved to be very capable tugs. I think the hull shape was quite aesthetic. With 14 tons of direct reversing 6 cyl Atlas Imperial and huge fuel tanks down low, they had a massive righting moment and were certainly uncomfortable in a steep sea (aren't most tugs?). The NZ Navy took three uncompleted ships post war and finished them off. One became a dockyard tug, one a diving tender and one was based in Westport. Fine ships and about the only time I've had a yodel at the leward rail at sea was on the dockyard one Arataki. But only the one time....
 

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TIDs

SOMERTON and SIR MILNE went south and ended their days alongside at Malahide, unfortunately submerged
Bill, not quite, I remember once in the mid 1980s when I was in Drogheda in the TID Salisbury, I travelled on the train down to Malahide to view the Sir Milne and Somerton derelict on the beach. Some years later in 1994, again in the Salisbury, I was in a little port just on the north side of Clogher Head called Port Oriel, and there was either the Sir Milne or Somerton. She had been bought and the new owners had tried to motorise her by fitting a lorry engine and gearbox into the after accommodation with a v belt drive to the propshaft which had been disconnected from the steam engine by removing the propshaft bolts. I doubt it was successful as there was no thrust bearing and I have a feeling she was broken up at Port Oriel. I cannot now remember which of the pair this was. Both Sir Milne and Somerton when at Malahide where owned by Jack Martin and Freddy Oldham, the same people I bought the Salisbury from. Stephen
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
Hi Stephen,

That was SIR MILNE

I based my submerged statement on a set of photographs shown to me some time ago by the late Chris Trumann of bot vessels sunk alongside at Malahide.

The full details below

T.I.D. 152 c/s GCBX
O.N. 180165. 54g. 0n. 65.0 x 17.0 x 7.4 feet.
C.2-cyl. (12½” and 26” x 18”) by J. Dickinson and Sons Ltd., Sunderland. Boiler by John G Kincaid and Co. Ltd., Greenock. Oil fuel. 220 IHP. 36.4nhp. 8½ knots.
Post 1972: Unspecified type diesel.
12.07.1945: (Ministry Job No. A/MS/1361) launched by Wm. Pickersgill and Sons Ltd., Sunderland (Yard No. 279) for the Ministry of War Transport, London, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
07.09.1945: Builders Certificate issued.
08.09.1945: Registered at Sunderland, vessel No.17 of 1945.
17.09.1945: Completed. Allocated to the South East Asia Command, (T. Phelan and Co. Ltd, Liverpool, appointed as lay-up managers).
20.03.1946: Owners restyled as the Ministry of Transport, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
10.07.1946: Sold to the Belfast Harbour Commissioners, Belfast.
20.11.1946: Arrived at Albert Quay, Belfast, under tow of DUCHESS OF ABERCORN (309g./37), from Liverpool.
16.01.1947: Registered at Belfast as SIR MILNE, vessel No.1 of 1947.
29.01.1947: Moved as T.I.D. 152, from Clarendon Dock into No.2 Graving Dock.
10.02.1947: Returned to Clarendon Dock as SIR MILNE.
1972: Sold to C.J. Martin, for demolition at Malahide, Eire . Owner however, cut propeller shaft just astern of the steam engine and fitted a large lorry engine and gearbox in the after accommodation.
1984: Owner bankrupt. Lying at Malahide, Eire.
199x: Whilst attempting passage from Malahide to Bangor, in gale force winds, was blown ashore at Port Oriel, Eire.
05.08.1995: Seen derelict and partially demolished at Port Oriel.
01.03.2005: Pieces of the stern and boiler seen on the beach at Port Oriel, Co. Louth.

T.I.D. 156 c/s GCKY
O.N. 180175. 54g. 0n. 65.0 x 17.0 x 7.4 feet.
C.2-cyl. (12½” and 26” x 18”) by John Dickinson and Sons Ltd., Sunderland. Boiler by Alexander Anderson and Co, Motherwell. Oil fuel. 220 IHP. 8½ knots.
08.09.1945: (Ministry Job No. A/MS/1365) launched by Wm. Pickersgill and Sons Ltd., Sunderland (Yard No. 283) for the Ministry of War Transport, London, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
06.11.1945: Registered at Sunderland, vessel No.27 of 1945.
08.11.1945: Completed.
10.11.1945: Placed in lay-up, under care and maintenance of J. Phelan and Co. Ltd., Liverpool.
20.03.1946: Owners restyled as the Ministry of Transport, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
10.07.1946: Sold to the Belfast Harbour Commissioners, Belfast.
12.07.1946: Arrived at Albert Quay, Belfast, towed by DUCHESS OF ABERCORN (309g./37), from Liverpool.
19.08.1946: Moved as T.I.D. 156, from Clarendon Dock into No.1 Graving Dock.
21.08.1946: Registered at Belfast, as SOMERTON, vessel No.15 of 1946.
18.09.1946: Returned to Clarendon Dock.
1972: Sold to C.J. Martin, for demolition at Malahide, Eire. (may be J. C. Martin)
1984: Owner bankrupt. Lying at Malahide, Eire.
pre 1994: Owner deceased and vessel in charge of a keeper. No ropes available for mooring so keeper burnt holes in the bottom and she became tidal.
04.12.2004: Seen lying sunk at Malahide.
06.2005: Wreck reported as having been raised and demolished at Howth.
 
Tids

Bill,

I do not think it was Jack Martin who attempted the conversion. I think Jack was involved in a business called A C Cranes at Dublin and Freddy Oldham was Frederick Oldham Ltd of Liverpool, scrap dealers. They often bought and sold vessels in partnership including quite a number of tugs over the years. I am pretty sure that Carmet Tug Co bought the Dunheron, ex Golden Cross, from them and going back to the 1930s Frederick Oldham Ltd stripped the machinery out of the concrete tug Cretegaff when owned by Portus. I think the Sir Milne was acquired by some other parties who carried out the conversion, I have a vague recollection of her being intended for use diving on wrecks to salvage non ferrous materials, but I cannot remember who told me this, possibly the late Captain Ian Metcalfe.
Stephen
 
There used to be a steam tug in Harwich/Felixstowe named GARY GREY (GARY GRAY?) which was owned by the owner of Grey tugs/Felixarc towage.

Was this a TID, please? I remember seeing it steam, and on Grey's moorings of Shotley, many years ago, but then it just seemed to have disappeared.

Martyn
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
If the same vessel, then no, not built until mid fifties and diesel powered

GARY GRAY
O.N. 186095. 37g. 0n. 56.9 x 16.4 x 5.9 feet.
6-cyl. 4 S.C.S.A. (8¾” x 11½”) Blackstone ER4M type by R. A. Lister (Marine Sales) Ltd., Dursley. 360bhp. 10kts. 5½ tons bollard pull.
1954: Completed as JAYCEE by P. K. Harris & Sons Ltd., Appledore (Yard No. 55) for Clements, Knowling & Company Ltd., London.
21.8.1954: Registered at London.
21.2.1962: Purchased by the United Towing Company Ltd., Hull and renamed LIGHTERMAN.
21.1.1970: Owners restyled as United Towing Ltd.
1974: Humber Tugs Ltd., appointed as managers.
20.9.1977: Sold to Felixarc Marine Ltd. (Donald Gray, manager), Felixstowe and renamed GARY GRAY.
1988: Sold to Heysham Boat Charters (Simpson & Sons), Heysham.
1995: Sank at her moorings at Heysham. Declared beyond economical repair. Subsequently refitted for Hampson Marine Towing, Fleetwood.
199x: Reported sold to Silas Oates, Falmouth and renamed GARRY GRAY for service at Holy Loch.
3.2005: Offered for sale at ÂŁ37,000, but continues laid up in 2010.
201x: Sank at moorings in Holyhead. Subsequently raised and removed for breaking at Garston
 
Thanks for the reply, Bill, about GARY GRAY.

I'm sure we had a smallish steam tug in Harwich harbour in the mid 80s-maybe it was TID 172 from Mistley, though. Whichever one it was, there was lots of smoke from the funnel when it was moving!

Martyn
 
A consortium of NZ boatbuilders with limited experience in steel built around 20 YTLs for the US Army for service in the Pacific during WW2. The first few were built in Australia and deemed unsafe but with some tweaks to the lines done by the RNZN Dockyard, they proved to be very capable tugs. I think the hull shape was quite aesthetic. With 14 tons of direct reversing 6 cyl Atlas Imperial and huge fuel tanks down low, they had a massive righting moment and were certainly uncomfortable in a steep sea (aren't most tugs?). The NZ Navy took three uncompleted ships post war and finished them off. One became a dockyard tug, one a diving tender and one was based in Westport. Fine ships and about the only time I've had a yodel at the leward rail at sea was on the dockyard one Arataki. But only the one time....
Hi Russell, from memory, there was a YTL(?) moored in the Kaiapoi river up till about the time of the earthquakes, maybe earlier, I think I have some photos of it somewhere but not digital. I need a scanner.
Steve.
 
A consortium of NZ boatbuilders with limited experience in steel built around 20 YTLs for the US Army for service in the Pacific during WW2. The first few were built in Australia and deemed unsafe but with some tweaks to the lines done by the RNZN Dockyard, they proved to be very capable tugs. I think the hull shape was quite aesthetic. With 14 tons of direct reversing 6 cyl Atlas Imperial and huge fuel tanks down low, they had a massive righting moment and were certainly uncomfortable in a steep sea (aren't most tugs?). The NZ Navy took three uncompleted ships post war and finished them off. One became a dockyard tug, one a diving tender and one was based in Westport. Fine ships and about the only time I've had a yodel at the leward rail at sea was on the dockyard one Arataki. But only the one time....
Russell , the two tugs were in service at the dock yard when I served my time and I worked on the engines of both while in the ICE shop .
I posted long ago about the mix up of the telegraph wires , must find and repost.

Bob
 
Russell , the two tugs were in service at the dock yard when I served my time and I worked on the engines of both while in the ICE shop .
I posted long ago about the mix up of the telegraph wires , must find and repost.

Bob
Yep please do. Some skippers had difficulty manoeuvring in night corners as it was. Some used to play great tunes on the telegraph without waiting for the engineer to get it on. Brought a roar from below audible through the skylight. "Make up yer f....g mind yer bastard" and then the sound of the air compressor having to be started because there was precious little air left for another start.
I heard about the Manawanui running a bearing and it being remachined in situ with a new white metal bearing to suit.
 

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Hi Russell, from memory, there was a YTL(?) moored in the Kaiapoi river up till about the time of the earthquakes, maybe earlier, I think I have some photos of it somewhere but not digital. I need a scanner.
Steve.
Might have been Arataki on her inexorable journey to the knackers in Dunedin. But she'd have been there before the earthquakes. I don't think James O'Brien made it that far south once she left Westport.
 
Might have been Arataki on her inexorable journey to the knackers in Dunedin. But she'd have been there before the earthquakes. I don't think James O'Brien made it that far south once she left Westport.
Hi Russell, spot on I think, this post from this site https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/112886/title/kaiapoi/cat/505 confirms it for me at any rate, I'm sorry to read it was scrapped, a quick google found me some more info on that too. It was probably about 10 years before Dave's post I saw it there I think.
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/long-life-ends-slipway. I thought she was quite a handsome little vessel, much like the TIDs in their own way.
Steve.
 
Having spoken to a former tug skipper, he informs me that GARY GRAY was indeed a motor tug, and that it was TID172 which was on the mooring buoys in Harwich harbour during the mid 80s.

Martyn
 
Hi Russell, spot on I think, this post from this site https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/112886/title/kaiapoi/cat/505 confirms it for me at any rate, I'm sorry to read it was scrapped, a quick google found me some more info on that too. It was probably about 10 years before Dave's post I saw it there I think.
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/long-life-ends-slipway. I thought she was quite a handsome little vessel, much like the TIDs in their own way.
Steve.
She was in reasonable nick when she hit Dunedin as part of Swann's Navy. He who stitched the local Area Health Board up for countless millions with felonious accounts for IT services never rendered. He was caught out and the liquidator, keen to ket his fees out of the entrails flogged her off for a pittance along with the 60' diesel tug Hikurangi. Arataki was scrapped to raise some dosh for the refurbishment of poor old similarly neglected Hik.
 

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I seem to remember that one of the tugs and a 72' HDML were moored in the river alongside the Paeroa Maritime Museum . The tug disappeared but the ML remained for a while. I am about to drive past on Thursday so I will check.
Russell, re the tug telegraph, cannot find the post but it related to the fitting of new stainless steel actuating wires from the wheelhouse to the engine room .
The fitter and his apprentice ran the wires through a devious course , connected same and tested for free and easy full scale action but they failed to check that 'full ahead' on the bridge rang full ahead in The ER.
They had lost the wire end positions when the wires crossed over out of sight so when the skipper rang half ahead to clear the berth the ER responded with half astern and further double rings saw the tug stern trying to move Stanley point further north. A lot of yelling , a lot of embarrassment all round.
It was a longer story so if I find it .........
 
I seem to remember that one of the tugs and a 72' HDML were moored in the river alongside the Paeroa Maritime Museum . The tug disappeared but the ML remained for a while. I am about to drive past on Thursday so I will check.
Russell, re the tug telegraph, cannot find the post but it related to the fitting of new stainless steel actuating wires from the wheelhouse to the engine room .
The fitter and his apprentice ran the wires through a devious course , connected same and tested for free and easy full scale action but they failed to check that 'full ahead' on the bridge rang full ahead in The ER.
They had lost the wire end positions when the wires crossed over out of sight so when the skipper rang half ahead to clear the berth the ER responded with half astern and further double rings saw the tug stern trying to move Stanley point further north. A lot of yelling , a lot of embarrassment all round.
It was a longer story so if I find it .........
The old back to front telegraphs trick. And they fell for it again! That was the ex HMNZDT Manawanui. She was sold to the Maritime Park at Paeroa NZ for a dollar or so and then (in typical museum style) neglected her for 30 years by which time her engine was pronounced to be seized (I wonder why!) and then she started weeping oil from somewhere and the local bureaukrauts demanded that she be destroyed forthwith if she couldn't be moved under her own steam. So they panicked and the crane man gave his services in exchange for the engine which he hoisted out in one and had running within months back at his shop. Nothing wrong with it at all. Still gets run up for display on occasion.
So now we have but one left in original running condition -the James O'Brien in Picton NZ.
 

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