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T.I.D.tugs of WW2

23K views 56 replies 16 participants last post by  Tassie48 
#1 ·
If all goes to schedule, my illustrated book on this subject matter should be in print in early September.

A4 of around 110 pages, it details the design concept, pre-fabricated construction methods etc and the careers of all 182 vessels.
 
#3 · (Edited)
David,
there were five T.I.D.s at Hull owned by St Andrews and Hull Steam Trawlers
TRIUNIE ex TID 28
BERNIE ex TID 86
GILDER ex TID 87
KIERO ex TID 44
and DAGGER ex HILLMAN ex TID 79

All TIDs were steam powered with Compound two cyl. engines.

The Voith tugs came later and I think there were three of them the only names I recall being AURORA and NEPTUNE

United Towing had four ex TIDs - HILLMAN, BOWMAN, YEOMAN and FENMAN (HILLMAN was quickly sold to Pigott in Grimsby but not given a LADY name

Fosters had one - TIDSPUR

Further upstream at Selby BOCM had ARDOL, OCO which was sunk in collision, raised, repaired and renamed SELBY OLYMPIAN
 
#6 ·
No John, that would be duplicating already publish work.

Both the Chants and the dry cargo version Fabrics both researched by Rev Andrew Huckett, have recently been published over several editions by the World Ship Society Ltd in their monthly journal MARINE NEWS, Supplement

I had started to compile the vessel details but stopped when I became aware of Andrews work being more advanced
 
#9 · (Edited)
Does anyone have information on the TID tugs built by Malta Dockyard in the late 1960s?
Same hull design but powered by a Kelvin diesel and a modern funnel.
3 were delivered to East African Railways and Harbours and used in Dar es Salaam
Originally named TID1, 2 and 3 they were renamed Rufiji, Ruvuma and Ruvu.
Others of the same design were delivered to West Africa I believe.
The design, orders and supervision were provided by the Crown Agents, Millbank acting for the African clients.
Malta Maritime Museum has a very good model, about 1/10th scale. Tucked away in an upstairs store room when I last visited, not on public display.
 

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#10 · (Edited)
During my research for the book I was in touch with a retired Marine Superintendent from East African Railways & Harbours Company at the time based in Dar-Es-Salem, (Unfortunately his name mislaid) and he provided me with much the same information as you have. I also have the same image in the book.

“The specification for the tugs was drawn up by Crown Agents. I am not sure if they also provided the design, but from memory the lines were the same as drawings and photos I have seen of the original T.I.D.’s. I believe that West German and Netherlands yards tendered for the job, but the order was awarded to Malta Dockyard. They were built 1967’ish, with Kelvin T8 engines on a T.I.D. hull design with fairly modern funnel, basic unglazed wheelhouse and dealt with the barges at the port. Until 1970 they were known as Malta T.I.D. 1, 2 and 3. During 1970 modifications were carried out, the bulwarks were removed due to extensive damage, leaving just a 75 x 75mm angle toe board and the transom was rounded off each side with a 300mm radius. After modifications T.I.D. 1 became RUFIJI, 2- RUVU and 3- RUVUMA (all Tanzanian rivers). They gave good service during my time in Dar, but I have no knowledge of them post 1973”.
 
#11 ·
During my research for the book I was in touch with a retired Marine Superintendent from East African Railways & Harbours Company ant the time based in Dar-Es-Salem, (Unfortunately his name mislaid) and he provided me with much the same information as you have. I also have the same image in the book.

“The specification for the tugs was drawn up by Crown Agents. I am not sure if they also provided the design, but from memory the lines were the same as drawings and photos I have seen of the original T.I.D.’s. I believe that West German and Netherlands yards tendered for the job, but the order was awarded to Malta Dockyard. They were built 1967’ish, with Kelvin T8 engines on a T.I.D. hull design with fairly modern funnel, basic unglazed wheelhouse and dealt with the barges at the port. Until 1970 they were known as Malta T.I.D. 1, 2 and 3. During 1970 modifications were carried out, the bulwarks were removed due to extensive damage, leaving just a 75 x 75mm angle toe board and the transom was rounded off each side with a 300mm radius. After modifications T.I.D. 1 became RUFIJI, 2- RUVU and 3- RUVUMA (all Tanzanian rivers). They gave good service during my time in Dar, but I have no knowledge of them post 1973”.
Thanks, it is me, Dick Goodey you are quoting.
 
#16 ·
In the 1950/60s the Belfast Harbour Commissioners had 3 harbour tugs 2 Tids the Sir Milne , Somerton and a diesel tug Sir Kenneth . She was built by Charles Hill in Bristol with a H and W engine . I was mate in the Sir Kenneth . Skipper in the Somerton when she was relieving the Sir K . Both the Tids were oil fuel steam tugs . Happy days .
Alex C .
 
#21 ·
Roy this extracted from the book typifies the detail of one of 182 vessel histories

T.I.D. 159 c/s GCML
O.N. 181130. 54g. 0n. 65.0 x 17.0 x 7.4 feet.
C.2-cyl. (12½” and 26” x 18”) by John Dickinson and Sons Ltd., Sunderland. Boiler by John G. Kincaid and Co. Ltd.,
Greenock. Oil fuel. 220 IHP. 8.5 knots.
05.11.1945: (Ministry Job No. A/MS/1368) launched by Wm. Pickersgill and Sons Ltd., Sunderland (Yard No. 286) for the
Ministry of War Transport, London, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
09.04.1946: Registered at Sunderland, vessel No.10 of 1946.
12.04.1946: Completed for the Ministry of Transport, London, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle,Hull, manager at the Ministry). Placed in lay-up under care and maintenance of Townsend Bros. (Ferries) Ltd.,London.
xx.091946: Sold to the Port of London Authority.,London.
17.10.1946: Registered in London, vessel No.378 of 1946.
28.02.1947: Registered as BRENT.
xx.07.1970:Sold to the Stour Salvage Co. Ltd., Mistley, for demolition.
01.06.1971: Sold to Ron and Janet Hall, Maldon, for preservation.
20.06.1971: Berthed at Hythe, Maldon. Regularly in steam on the East Coast and further afield.
xx.08.1994: Placed in lay-up due to boiler concerns.
xx.10.2002: Dry-docked at Maldon. Bottom overplated and hull partially re-plated.
21.12.2010: The Steam Tug Brent Trust formed.
10.07.2011: Vessel placed in the ownership of the Trust.
2019: Still in existence. Restoration in progress
 
#23 ·
NZ's Equivalent

A consortium of NZ boatbuilders with limited experience in steel built around 20 YTLs for the US Army for service in the Pacific during WW2. The first few were built in Australia and deemed unsafe but with some tweaks to the lines done by the RNZN Dockyard, they proved to be very capable tugs. I think the hull shape was quite aesthetic. With 14 tons of direct reversing 6 cyl Atlas Imperial and huge fuel tanks down low, they had a massive righting moment and were certainly uncomfortable in a steep sea (aren't most tugs?). The NZ Navy took three uncompleted ships post war and finished them off. One became a dockyard tug, one a diving tender and one was based in Westport. Fine ships and about the only time I've had a yodel at the leward rail at sea was on the dockyard one Arataki. But only the one time....
 

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#30 ·
A consortium of NZ boatbuilders with limited experience in steel built around 20 YTLs for the US Army for service in the Pacific during WW2. The first few were built in Australia and deemed unsafe but with some tweaks to the lines done by the RNZN Dockyard, they proved to be very capable tugs. I think the hull shape was quite aesthetic. With 14 tons of direct reversing 6 cyl Atlas Imperial and huge fuel tanks down low, they had a massive righting moment and were certainly uncomfortable in a steep sea (aren't most tugs?). The NZ Navy took three uncompleted ships post war and finished them off. One became a dockyard tug, one a diving tender and one was based in Westport. Fine ships and about the only time I've had a yodel at the leward rail at sea was on the dockyard one Arataki. But only the one time....
Hi Russell, from memory, there was a YTL(?) moored in the Kaiapoi river up till about the time of the earthquakes, maybe earlier, I think I have some photos of it somewhere but not digital. I need a scanner.
Steve.
 
#25 ·
Hi Stephen,

That was SIR MILNE

I based my submerged statement on a set of photographs shown to me some time ago by the late Chris Trumann of bot vessels sunk alongside at Malahide.

The full details below

T.I.D. 152 c/s GCBX
O.N. 180165. 54g. 0n. 65.0 x 17.0 x 7.4 feet.
C.2-cyl. (12½” and 26” x 18”) by J. Dickinson and Sons Ltd., Sunderland. Boiler by John G Kincaid and Co. Ltd., Greenock. Oil fuel. 220 IHP. 36.4nhp. 8½ knots.
Post 1972: Unspecified type diesel.
12.07.1945: (Ministry Job No. A/MS/1361) launched by Wm. Pickersgill and Sons Ltd., Sunderland (Yard No. 279) for the Ministry of War Transport, London, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
07.09.1945: Builders Certificate issued.
08.09.1945: Registered at Sunderland, vessel No.17 of 1945.
17.09.1945: Completed. Allocated to the South East Asia Command, (T. Phelan and Co. Ltd, Liverpool, appointed as lay-up managers).
20.03.1946: Owners restyled as the Ministry of Transport, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
10.07.1946: Sold to the Belfast Harbour Commissioners, Belfast.
20.11.1946: Arrived at Albert Quay, Belfast, under tow of DUCHESS OF ABERCORN (309g./37), from Liverpool.
16.01.1947: Registered at Belfast as SIR MILNE, vessel No.1 of 1947.
29.01.1947: Moved as T.I.D. 152, from Clarendon Dock into No.2 Graving Dock.
10.02.1947: Returned to Clarendon Dock as SIR MILNE.
1972: Sold to C.J. Martin, for demolition at Malahide, Eire . Owner however, cut propeller shaft just astern of the steam engine and fitted a large lorry engine and gearbox in the after accommodation.
1984: Owner bankrupt. Lying at Malahide, Eire.
199x: Whilst attempting passage from Malahide to Bangor, in gale force winds, was blown ashore at Port Oriel, Eire.
05.08.1995: Seen derelict and partially demolished at Port Oriel.
01.03.2005: Pieces of the stern and boiler seen on the beach at Port Oriel, Co. Louth.

T.I.D. 156 c/s GCKY
O.N. 180175. 54g. 0n. 65.0 x 17.0 x 7.4 feet.
C.2-cyl. (12½” and 26” x 18”) by John Dickinson and Sons Ltd., Sunderland. Boiler by Alexander Anderson and Co, Motherwell. Oil fuel. 220 IHP. 8½ knots.
08.09.1945: (Ministry Job No. A/MS/1365) launched by Wm. Pickersgill and Sons Ltd., Sunderland (Yard No. 283) for the Ministry of War Transport, London, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
06.11.1945: Registered at Sunderland, vessel No.27 of 1945.
08.11.1945: Completed.
10.11.1945: Placed in lay-up, under care and maintenance of J. Phelan and Co. Ltd., Liverpool.
20.03.1946: Owners restyled as the Ministry of Transport, (Stanley Lancelot Tottle, Hull, manager at the Ministry).
10.07.1946: Sold to the Belfast Harbour Commissioners, Belfast.
12.07.1946: Arrived at Albert Quay, Belfast, towed by DUCHESS OF ABERCORN (309g./37), from Liverpool.
19.08.1946: Moved as T.I.D. 156, from Clarendon Dock into No.1 Graving Dock.
21.08.1946: Registered at Belfast, as SOMERTON, vessel No.15 of 1946.
18.09.1946: Returned to Clarendon Dock.
1972: Sold to C.J. Martin, for demolition at Malahide, Eire. (may be J. C. Martin)
1984: Owner bankrupt. Lying at Malahide, Eire.
pre 1994: Owner deceased and vessel in charge of a keeper. No ropes available for mooring so keeper burnt holes in the bottom and she became tidal.
04.12.2004: Seen lying sunk at Malahide.
06.2005: Wreck reported as having been raised and demolished at Howth.
 
#26 ·
Tids

Bill,

I do not think it was Jack Martin who attempted the conversion. I think Jack was involved in a business called A C Cranes at Dublin and Freddy Oldham was Frederick Oldham Ltd of Liverpool, scrap dealers. They often bought and sold vessels in partnership including quite a number of tugs over the years. I am pretty sure that Carmet Tug Co bought the Dunheron, ex Golden Cross, from them and going back to the 1930s Frederick Oldham Ltd stripped the machinery out of the concrete tug Cretegaff when owned by Portus. I think the Sir Milne was acquired by some other parties who carried out the conversion, I have a vague recollection of her being intended for use diving on wrecks to salvage non ferrous materials, but I cannot remember who told me this, possibly the late Captain Ian Metcalfe.
Stephen
 
#27 · (Edited)
There used to be a steam tug in Harwich/Felixstowe named GARY GREY (GARY GRAY?) which was owned by the owner of Grey tugs/Felixarc towage.

Was this a TID, please? I remember seeing it steam, and on Grey's moorings of Shotley, many years ago, but then it just seemed to have disappeared.

Martyn
 
#28 ·
If the same vessel, then no, not built until mid fifties and diesel powered

GARY GRAY
O.N. 186095. 37g. 0n. 56.9 x 16.4 x 5.9 feet.
6-cyl. 4 S.C.S.A. (8¾” x 11½”) Blackstone ER4M type by R. A. Lister (Marine Sales) Ltd., Dursley. 360bhp. 10kts. 5½ tons bollard pull.
1954: Completed as JAYCEE by P. K. Harris & Sons Ltd., Appledore (Yard No. 55) for Clements, Knowling & Company Ltd., London.
21.8.1954: Registered at London.
21.2.1962: Purchased by the United Towing Company Ltd., Hull and renamed LIGHTERMAN.
21.1.1970: Owners restyled as United Towing Ltd.
1974: Humber Tugs Ltd., appointed as managers.
20.9.1977: Sold to Felixarc Marine Ltd. (Donald Gray, manager), Felixstowe and renamed GARY GRAY.
1988: Sold to Heysham Boat Charters (Simpson & Sons), Heysham.
1995: Sank at her moorings at Heysham. Declared beyond economical repair. Subsequently refitted for Hampson Marine Towing, Fleetwood.
199x: Reported sold to Silas Oates, Falmouth and renamed GARRY GRAY for service at Holy Loch.
3.2005: Offered for sale at £37,000, but continues laid up in 2010.
201x: Sank at moorings in Holyhead. Subsequently raised and removed for breaking at Garston
 
#38 ·
I seem to remember that one of the tugs and a 72' HDML were moored in the river alongside the Paeroa Maritime Museum . The tug disappeared but the ML remained for a while. I am about to drive past on Thursday so I will check.
Russell, re the tug telegraph, cannot find the post but it related to the fitting of new stainless steel actuating wires from the wheelhouse to the engine room .
The fitter and his apprentice ran the wires through a devious course , connected same and tested for free and easy full scale action but they failed to check that 'full ahead' on the bridge rang full ahead in The ER.
They had lost the wire end positions when the wires crossed over out of sight so when the skipper rang half ahead to clear the berth the ER responded with half astern and further double rings saw the tug stern trying to move Stanley point further north. A lot of yelling , a lot of embarrassment all round.
It was a longer story so if I find it .........
 
#40 ·
The old back to front telegraphs trick. And they fell for it again! That was the ex HMNZDT Manawanui. She was sold to the Maritime Park at Paeroa NZ for a dollar or so and then (in typical museum style) neglected her for 30 years by which time her engine was pronounced to be seized (I wonder why!) and then she started weeping oil from somewhere and the local bureaukrauts demanded that she be destroyed forthwith if she couldn't be moved under her own steam. So they panicked and the crane man gave his services in exchange for the engine which he hoisted out in one and had running within months back at his shop. Nothing wrong with it at all. Still gets run up for display on occasion.
So now we have but one left in original running condition -the James O'Brien in Picton NZ.
 

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#43 ·
Correct, I have found my old list,


The Fairbanks Morse was aboard the old liberty boat
The Officers motor boat had a Gardner
The Commodores Barge had a Ford Mercury V8 conversion.
The Fairmile's and 72 ft HDMLs had Gray Marine diesels that replaced the Atlas engines and when I left there was talk of replacing the Grays with Fodens to standardise with British Admiralty.


Bob
 
#44 ·
T I d tugs

Greetings Cpt Steve Buttling here now living in the USA
I worked 5 years on HMNZ Dockyard tug Arataki with then skipper Don Moore Engineer Bert Williamson Peter Robinson Vince Harding and Tony Steele .Aratakis i d YTL 627
Manawanui was then the dive school platform with both powered by Atlas Imperials ( singles) A very lively ride in a head sea and a roller in beam seas !! Had some great times aboard her with a great crew
 
#45 ·
I've just visited and been aboard the BRENT in Maldon. No charge, donations gratefully accepted. They are currently trying to raise money to replace the boiler tubes.

The TID 172 alongside her has had quite a lot of hull plating replaced. some of it a bit crudely. I understood from the volunteers on the BRENT that the TID 172 is being moved to a new owner on the Medway; but there is currently a problem in arranging the necessary paperwork for the tow.

Martyn
 
#46 ·
Received my advance copy this morning and happy with the end result. The publisher has advised me as below. Will post further details as I receive them

T.I.D Tugs of WW2
The publisher (World Ship Society Ltd) has advised the following

"As to pricing & availability it will be £10 (WSS members) / £15 (non-members) plus postage, but will not be available until stock arrives at our Chatham storage facility (circa 6th November). and a dispatcher in place to deal with orders"
 
#47 ·
T.I.D Tugs of WW2
Today, I received this e-mail from a friend in Belgium

Good afternoon Bill,
Earlier, the doorbell rang and the postman handed me over the book about the T.I.D. Tugs you wrote.

I am flabbergasted for the details you were able to find. You have delivered a very good book and it will be on my desk for the next couple of weeks to browse it throughly.

In the meantime I can already congratulate you on the splendid work done about the T.I.D. tugs. From every page the thorough research can be read.. It can definitely be said that this book is a real "must".
 
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