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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
TODAY

“You should not leave without a deal”, advise the Japanese.
Why are we now so patronised by people such as these?
From half a world away? Who know of Geishas, steam and flannel,
And little know of history across the English Channel?

Because we are in such a mess, at Westminster, that is.
The questions which beset us are beyond the alehouse quiz.
Our future is at stake. By our own hands we’ve made it so.
How tempting is it now to tell the Jap where he should go?

Might he be right? Of course he is, or so it seems to me.
He offers no false friendship. No fake hands across the sea.
He speaks from the commercial world, about which he knows much.
We could do worse than heed his unrequested vocal touch.

Are we so thick that we should ditch the wisdom of the ages?
The recent decades hard-constructed by our forebear sages,
Who dragged us out of global conflict, spillage of much blood.
Is national pride so stupid as to sink us in its flood?

Perhaps it is. I do not know. Such pride, it is not mine.
I am an Ancient Briton. I appreciate good wine,
Too much, some might accuse me with at least an ounce of reason.
Remember Pax Britannia? Was that ever born of treason?

I am not an economist. I pray for daily bread.
I have no wish to turn life’s understanding on its head.
The Japanese insult us now. Do they return our grace?
They probably are right. We can but look them in the face

And thank them for their sound advice, born of their hardest time.
Since when has common sense held pride as anything sublime?
Reason, rationale and balance. Due consideration.
May these govern yet, today, within our sovereign nation.

BY
10.01 2019
 

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Good work again Barrie. The Japanese were our friends and allies once upon a time. It was an Englishman who taught them how to make motor cars.
 

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Thank you, Roy.

Having been utterly crushed, their economic recovery was little short of astonishing.
They had a lot of economic help from the USA and UK to help them on their way, and yes I do admire their industrious nature, but their affinity to the West was purchased
 

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They had a lot of economic help from the USA and UK to help them on their way, and yes I do admire their industrious nature, but their affinity to the West was purchased
Very interesting. What form did UK economic help take? I was in a number of their ports, early post war and it appeared to be an all-american sphere of interest. The Australian Army was highly visible in the Commonwealth Zone, as an occupation force.
 

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Very interesting. What form did UK economic help take?
I got my information from directors of a large Japanese shipbuilding and crane building company when I was negotiating a contract with them to supply them rather than them supply me; and it was also discussed in 1959/60 in visits to Japan during my sea going career.

Unfortunately I am not a Google researcher so would be unable to cut and paste from that source, I am sure you will be able to Google it.
 

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That post-war austerity ridden Britain, having to borrow large sums from the US to keep a faint spark of the by premier Attlee promised “New Jerusalem” flickering, should give any economic aid to Japan, sounds strange. The consensus among economic historians has been that the Americans thought that economic recovery was the way to combat militant nationalism and therefore sought to help Japan rise from the ashes, and that Britain, fearful of the competition, tried rather to restrict them in their ambitions. The American fear of Soviet expansion, being intensified by the Korean war, produced the idea of Japan as a capitalistic bulwark against communism in Washington, and made Japan’s recovery, as well as Germany’s, all the more important to the US.

But that Japan’s post war rise should in any large degree be credited the USA has been challenged lately. Many economic historians have pointed out that the “economic miracle” of Japan and Germany started before the war, and both people and policies post-war was a continuance of the same people and policies pre-war. And so neither of the World War 2 winning nations should be given too much credit for the so called "economic miracles." The prescription for economic success in Japan, and now also in South Korea and China, is these days described in the West as authoritarian state-run capitalism, and of course as well-organised theft of ideas. (If we get a patent free world, that theory will of course be altered to incorporate something else of a seriously detractory nature.)
 

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My understanding of the situation post-War is along the same lines as yours, Stein. Our head of the History department at school was always highly critical of the UK's efforts to rebuild Europe and restore viable democracies, judging the UK's contributions as being very poor in comparison with those of the USA.

He was very involved with the various Displaced Person (DP) resettlement charities and we sixth-formers used to put in time during lunch breaks, and after school, packing and addressing packets of magazines, collected by the pupils, which we then franked and posted (newspaper rate) to the various DP Camps around Europe that he supported.

My children and grandchildren were never made aware (by school lessons) of the effects of the War on the civil populations of Europe and their difficulties in trying to return to normal life, or even to their own countries. Here in the UK the scale of the, yes, displacement, of entire communities and major populations seems to have been air-brushed away. That ignorance continues to this day and as far as the UK media are concerned, the London Blitz and its consequences seem to be the only effects of WW2 on any civilians, regardless of country.

Although the Americans did indeed provide much of the financial support needed to begin to rebuild the industries of our former enemies, the people of those countries were responsible for their subsequent rapid development and innovation. In the immediate post-war world, American industries were already in a dominant position when the likes of VW and Toyota were being created from devastation and chaos. Since then the 'locals' have managed to create massive, successful, enterprises (whilst competing with American organisations) entirely by their own efforts, not as a result of US assistance.
 

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Unfortunately I am not a Google researcher so would be unable to cut and paste from that source, I am sure you will be able to Google it.
You are a snippy little guy, aren't you? Perhaps if you were to consult Google before offering some nebulous "facts" on various subjects, you might arrive at a conclusion more in line with what Stein has to offer in his Post #14 and RS in his post.

I looked up your profile but, I see you do not wish to share it with the rest of us. You have us at a disadvantage.
 

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(a) You are a snippy little guy, aren't you?


(b) Perhaps if you were to consult Google before offering some nebulous "facts" on various subjects, you might arrive at a conclusion more in line with what Stein has to offer in his Post RS in his post.

(c) I looked up your profile but, I see you do not wish to share it with the rest of us. You have us at a disadvantage.
(a) You been reading my private mail again, shame on you

(b) Google may be your bible, it's not mine, I've had a real life.

(c) Haven't bothered to read your profile, but feel sure you describe yourself as an insulting stirrer. (Night)(Eats)
 

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(a)

(b) Google may be your bible, it's not mine, I've had a real life.

(c) Haven't bothered to read your profile, but feel sure you describe yourself as an insulting stirrer. (Night)(Eats)
I apologize , as I did not seek to touch any nerves. Maybe someday you can share this real life with those of us who have not been so fortunate.

I do not have sixty years of seafaring followed by twenty-seven in the private sector, as I am only eighty-eight, going on eighty-nine shortly.

I never thought about showing my ****-stirring tendencies in my profile but, who'd be interested. One can only strive for improvement.
 
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