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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All;

I wonder if any of you can tell me if a "Works List" or "Record of Construction" has appeared for the shipbuilder Workman, Clark & Co. Belfast. Northern Ireland?

I have found reference to a book as listed below:

Forgotten Shipbuilders of Belfast
Corp Author: Workman, Clark & Co.,, 1880-1935.
Publication: Belfast : Friar's Bush Press, 2004
ISBN 094687266X


However, this book seems to show up under "Economics", and I have to wonder just what is contained therein regarding vessels built by this concern,

Any help or direction here will be most appreciated as I am trying to obtain the record of ship construction for this builder.

Cheers,

Rory
 

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Hi Rory,
Being a boy from Belfast I'd like to start the ball rolling for you on this thread,
The Blue Funnel Line had several Classic Passenger Cargo Liners of about 10,000 tons each built by Workman Clark & Co Belfast from about 1910.
The 1st named AENEAS operated UK to OZ via the Cape. Commandeered as Troopship 1914, resumed service 1920, troopship again 1939, bombed and sunk 1940.
ANCHISES, much the same history bombed and sunk 1941.
ASCANIUS, much the same again, torpedoed 1944, made it to port, resumed service to OZ 1946, sold in 1949 and broken up 1953 in Italy.
NESTOR, Much the same again without the damage. broken up in Scotland 1949.
ULYSSES same as the 1st two, torpedoed and sunk off USA 1942.
Workman Clark built at least one ship for The Orient Line, OTRANTO in 1909 for service to OZ via Suez, she suffered a fate similar to 3 of the above, she was commandeered as an Armed Merchant Cruiser in 1914, in 1918 she collided with KASHMIR and was wrecked off the coast of Scotland
Hope you receive lots more posts, I too would like to hear more about the ships Workman Clark built.
Cheers
Ted (Thumb)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
WORKMAN CLARK & Co, Belfast [Book]

Thanks Ted and George;

I emailed a University in Illinois that has a holding for the book I mentioned. The young man there was very decent to pull the copy, and give me a review of the book as included herein.


Hello Rory,

Here's a review for you based on my skimming through the book:

This slick-papered volume is lavishly illustrated with black and white photos of both ships and facilities, advertisements, engines and the shipyard. With all the photos and illustrations, the text seems concise and direct. Included in the back of the book are tables labelled "Output Record--1880 to 1933" and "Particulars of Vessels Built--1880 to 1934". The "Particulars" table includes columns for Yard No., Year, Name, Type, Gross Tonnage, H.P., and Owner for apparently all the ships produced at the yards during the years covered (approximately 500 ships).

I hope this helps, Rory. It seems to be a very well put together book to me.


-Steve

Steve Sawyer
Reserves/Extended Hours
Southern Illinois University Carbondale
Library Affairs
Mailcode 6632
Carbondale, IL 62901
(618) 453-2940


Based on the review one can determine that most of the important specs are included in Tables. It seems to lack Length, Beam and Draught of the vessels.

I have not found any bookshops here in the States offering a copy of the book as yet. If any of you should know a bookshop over here please let me know.

Cheers,

Rory
 

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Rory_P_OConnor said:
Thanks Ted and George;
Based on the review one can determine that most of the important specs are included in Tables. It seems to lack Length, Beam and Draught of the vessels.

Cheers,

Rory
Rory, if you wish, provide me with ships names and date of build, I can check my Lloyds (1937/38 & 1959/60) for you. They'll give you more info.

Regards

Clem
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Workman, Clark & Co, “Works List”

Hello Hugh;
Thanks for the link to Easons Bookstore in Dublin. Did the email thing, but they really do not have it. There is another Link to Belfast from ABE, but I imagine the story will be the same there

Good afternoon Rory
I just checked our shelves and unfortunately we no longer have any copies of the book you are looking for. Our supplier's website indicates that the book is out of print so we are unable to order one for you, however I have located copies on an excellent used book website which you should be able to see through the following link:
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/S...rgotten+Shipbuilders+of+Belfast&x=38&sortby=3

I hope this helps.
Regards
Louisa
www.easons.com


At this point I would gladly settle for the seven pages of TABLES from the back of the book. I think it would be a fantastic starting point for the complete Workman, Clark & Co, “Works List” if everyone would chip in the bits of info they have on hand. Interested parties here on SN would then have their very own “Ships Record of Construction” for this concern, and we could then embark on another worthwhile project together.

Thanks again Clem;
I really do appreciate your offer from the Lloyds Register. At this very moment I am working up a List in EXCEL, and can send it to you when it starts to amount to something.

I wish there was a way to Post a “Tables Format” up here where we could add our ‘two cents’ [Brass Farthing] to it. A sort of “Hope for The Best” work of art.

Thanks for your continued help, All.
Rory
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks Bruce;

Neither has them in stock, and both say "usually despatched within 14 days" This is the key to tell you they are expecting to get the item from the publisher. In this instance the publisher does not have them. I'll probably eventually find it up on ABEs or someplace as used, and that is OK.

In the meantime a very nice lady in Belfast, UK, and a similarly nice lady at Texas A&M have sent me the seven pages of TABLES from the back of the book. This makes for a great starting point, and since United Fruit plus Elders & Fyffes owned 10%+ of Workmans total production I am filling that section in at present. One does have to consider the times for the listings. An example: SHIP: Reventazon, OWNER: Admiralty, we know it later as E&F. That sort of thing.

Mention of United Fruit and Fyffes above reminds me of something I am trying to find for a group of ships built by the Swan Hunter group for UFCo. Does anyone have the YARD# [Hull#], Call Letters and/or other specs for this group? Anytrhing will be appreciated.

Co SHIP YR A Yard# BUILDER GRT LOA L B D ENGINE NHP Kns

UFC Amelia 1906 Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 1271 227' 3 31' 7 13' 8 III-Ex 12.5
UFC Annetta 1906 Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 1271 227' 3 31' 7 13' 8 III-Ex 12.5
UFC Bella 1906 Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 1271 227' 3 31' 7 13' 8 III-Ex 12.5
E&F Changuinola 1912 [1] Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 5978 410' 9 51' 1 30' 4 (2) III-Ex 14
UFC Clearwater 1884 Wigham Richardson & Co Newcastle 1467 240' 0 31' 1 12' 3 III-Ex 12
UFC Crawford Ellis 1930 Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 2200 281' 0 40' 0 23' 0 III-Ex 16
UFC Guardian 1907 Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 1768 278' 4 36' 0 14' 9 6cyl III exp 12
UFC Hvoslef 1927 Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 1630 255' 0 36' 5 21' 1 III-Ex 15
UFC Lillie 1903 Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 1271 227' 3 31' 7 13' 8 III-Ex 12.5
E&F Manistee 1904 [1] Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 3869 350' 5 46' 0 29' 3 III-Ex 515 12
E&F Matina 1904 [1] Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 3870 350' 5 46' 0 29' 3 III-Ex 515 12
UFC Miraflores 1921 Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 2158 270' 7 39' 0 22' 7 T 12.5
E&F Motagua 1912 [1] Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 5978 410' 9 51' 1 30' 4 (2) III-Ex 14
UFC Oradell 1924 Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 1645 254' 9 35' 7 20' 0 2-T 14
UFC Sagua 1914 Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 3288 331' 2 45' 2 25' 6 III-Ex 14
UFC Tanamo 1914 Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 3298 331' 2 45' 2 25' 6 III-Ex 14


Cheers,
Rory
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Workman Clark Book "TABLES"

This one is for "He Who Walks On Water"

Please! I need the expert for this problem.

United Fruit Co shows two vessels on charter, and eventually transfered into their fleet built by Workman Clark in 1890. They were built for Colvis, Lowden & Company, and sailed under UK Flag. The names of the vessels were "ETHELRED" and "ETHELWOLD". See attached jpg.

However, the Workman Clark list from the book shows only Yard 72, "ETHELWOLD" 1890, 955 GWT Colvils [note spelling], Lowden & Co. There are no missing YARD#s in the area for 1890 so the question becomes where is "ETHELRED"? Was she built by Workman Clark or by someone else?

Help on this one will be most appreciated.

Cheers,
Rory
 

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Rory, I have yard numbers for some, but not all of the ships you ask about. It may be that some of these ships were built in other Swan Hunter yards, such as in Sunderland or they may have been built for other owners or with different names. I will check them out later, but this is what I do have.

Yard Number. Name. Date. Owner.

285 Lillie 1903 Donald S.S.

296 Manistee 1904 Elder Fyffe.

295 Matina 1904 Elder Fyffe

767 Amelia 1906 Donald S.S.

765 Bella 1906 Donald S.S.

787 Annetta 1906 Donald S.S.

784 Guardian 1907 Central & South Amnerican Cable Co. ??

1163 Miraflores 1921 Atlantic Fruit Co NY


I will search for the others, and see if I can match your specs, or trade names with my data, and get back to you.

Joe Rooney
 

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Rory, I have the following in another yard list, also Swan Hunter.

Yard Number Name Owner Date

1419 Crawford Ellis Helmer Staubo 1930
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The Swan Hunter Group

Hello Joe.

Thank you kindly for the material you have researched on the Swan Hunter Group on my part. I must apologize for having presented you with the mess for those ships. Suffice to say I did not need to enter the builders name for each ship, as the maker was understood to begin with. Instead I should have included the original owners. A bit late on my part, but included herein the original owners, as best I know them.

Regarding the complicated early history for CHANGUINOLA and MOTAGUA it is best understood by the very indebt history presented by our wonderful member Jim S as submitted earlier in The Fyffe’s Thread.

Guardian was a ship with an interesting career, and the bow section looked pretty fancy. I guess the former cable laying spit(?) gave her a Clipper Ship profile.

Cheers, Rory

"""CHANGUINOLA and MOTAGUA were built 1912 by Swan Hunter & Wighham Richardson, Newcastle. 5978 grt Twin Screw triple expansion steam recip steamers with a servicew speed of 14 knots.Dimensions. L 410.9 ft, B 51.1 ft, D 30.4 ft.
The situation regarding ownership at ordering was complicated.Suffice to say the order for the pair was placed by Hamburg America Line who had took over the shares of the largest shareholder of At;antic Fruit & Steamship Co. This brought them into conflict with United Fruit Co. Deciding it was not worth the battle Hamburg America offered to withdraw if United Fruit Co took over the ships.
CHANGUINOLA was laid down as COLUMBIA but on purchase on the stocks was renamed KARL SCHURZ but at launch this was changed to CARL SCHURZ.

United Fruit Company decided to let Elders & Fyffes operate and she was renamed. She became Armed Boarding Vessel HMS CHANGUINOLA in 1915.In 1933 she was broken up in Glasgow. MOTAGUA was laid down as NORMANNIA on purchase in 1913 she was renamed EMILE L BOAS. March 1914 saw her transferred to E & F and renamed MOTAGUA. In 1915 she was converted into Armed Merchant Cruiser. 16th March 1917 she struck a mine off Shetlands but survived. In March 1918 she collided off Plymouth with USS MANLEY and had her stern blown off by exploding depth charges.
Broken up in Rotterdam in 1933.
Jim S"""


E&F Changuinola 1912 [1] Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 5978 410' 9 51' 1 30' 4 (2) III-Ex 14
E&F Motagua 1912 [1] Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 5978 410' 9 51' 1 30' 4 (2) III-Ex 14


UFC Oradell 1924 Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 1645 254' 9 35' 7 20' 0 2-T 14
Atlantic Fruit, Chartered to & bought by Standard Fruit, Operated under Charter to UFCo

UFC Sagua 1914 Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 3288 331' 2 45' 2 25' 6 III-Ex 14
Blt as “van der Duyn” for Wambersie & Zoom, Rotterdam. r/n Sagua, to USN as #1627 NOTS Transport to Cuyamel Fruit r/n “Cuyamapa” to UFCo r/n Sagua

UFC Tanamo 1914 Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 3298 331' 2 45' 2 25' 6 III-Ex 14
Blt as “van Hogendorp” for Wambersie & Zoom, Rotterdam. Later Tanamo. 1918 to USN as #2176 NOTS Transport

UFC Clearwater 1884 Wigham Richardson & Co Newcastle 1467 240' 0 31' 1 12' 3 III-Ex 12
Clearwater Steamship Co. Ltd. Belize Registered. 1889 to UFCo from Macheca Bros. (New Orleans & Belize Royal Mail SS Co.

UFC Hvoslef 1927 Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson, Wallsend 1630 255' 0 36' 5 21' 1 III-Ex 15
Helmer Staubo, Norwegian Flag
 

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Hi Rory,

I have identified all but Clearwater 1884. Could she have had a different launch and owner name?

This is what else I have.

Yard #. Names. Year. Owner.

911 Columbia/Karl Schurz/Changuinola. 1912 Hamburg Amerika Line.

912 Normannia/Emil L. Boas/Motagua. 1912 Hamburg Amerika Line.

953 Van Hogendorp/Tanamo/#2176. 1914 Wamberslie & Zoom.

961 Van der Duyn/#1627/Sagua/Cuyamapa. 1914 Wamberslie & Zoom

1225 Oradell 1924 Ronde SS Co, Montreal

1307 Hvoslef 1927 A/S Flora (H. Staubo & O. Ditlev-Simonsen Jr.)

If you can me any lead on possible earlier manes or ownership, I may be able to track the Clearwater.

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Swan Hunter Group & ss ETHELRED

Hello Joe;

Thanks again for the great information for the group of UFCo ships built by Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson. I do not really have any further information for that particular Clearwater. I noticed another by the same builders built in 1894, but that one wound up in the USN.

I found the answer for the ETHELRED. It was built elsewhere. I had come upon another ship listed as built by Workman Clark for China Mutual/Bluefunnel Line, ss MOYUNE, and it too turned out to be from a different yard.

The CLYDESIDE DATABASE provided the following.

ETHELRED
Launched 1890: ETHELRED
built by S McKnight Ayr Shipyard,
Engines by D.Rowan & Son, Glasgow
Propulsion: Steam; T.3-cyl. (18" 27" & 45" x 36") 130 HP engine
Launched: Monday, 24 March 1890
Built: 1890
Ship Type: General Cargo Steamship
Tonnage: 894grt/ 534nrt
Length: 205ft
Breadth: 28.1ft
Draught: 12.9ft
Owner History:
McGregor Steamship Company Glasgow
Status: Not Recorded - 1900
Remarks: 5.1890: Completed for McGregor Steam Ship Company Ltd., (Colvilles, Lowden & Company) P.of R., Glasgow. (O.N. 97640)
By 1900: Not listed.
Information supplied by Bill Harvey.

Thanks again Joe, the information you have provided is really appreciated, and I believe my question on ETHELRED is also answered.

Cheers,
Rory
 

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Workman Clark, Belfast "Forgotten Shipbuilders of Belfast"

This book is currently available from the Linen Hall Library, Belfast for £10.

Forgotten Shipbuilders of Belfast
Corp Author: Workman, Clark & Co.,, 1880-1935.
Publication: Belfast : Friar's Bush Press, 2004
ISBN 094687266X

See http://www.linenhall.com/shopBooks.asp
" **SPECIAL OFFER: WAS £12.99 - NOW ONLY £10** This book highlights the achievements of the largely forgotten Belfast firm of shipbuilders, Workman Clark. This is a reprint of two very rare in-house books"

I have a vague recollection that my father talked about working there - probably as an apprentice pattern-maker. He later worked at Harland & Wolff through the war, and later at James Mackie & Sons.
 

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I realise that it will be of only passing interest however Durham, which was the first merchant ship with all electric deck machinery and was the ship that Federal and NZSC vessels were modelled on was the last vessel built there.
She was laid down in 1928 and completed in 1934 after 6 years because of the Depression.
She had a huge permanent magnetism too.......used to be the very devil to correct her compasses.
She sailed on until 1965.....
 

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Hi Rory - am new to this forum, but saw your posting when checking Workman Clark on Google. Any chance I could have copies of the tables you mentioned?
I am primarily interested in the "Archdale" 1891, "Garsdale" 1885 and the "Iredale" 1889. Greatly appreciate any help.
Thanks and cheers - Thomasp
 

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Thomas,
The following is from a Belfast morning paper -
Launch from the Belfast Shipyard.
Yesterday, at high water, Messrs. Workman, Clark & Co. (Limited) launched from their shipbuilding yard a handsomely-modelled steel sailing barque, built to the order of Messrs. J. H. Iredale & Co., of Liverpool. As the vessel left the ways she was gracefully christened the Archdale by Miss Ashton, of Edinburgh. The principal dimensions of the vessel are - Length, 256.2 feet; breadth, 38 feet; depth of hold, 22 feet; registered tonnage, about 1,480 tons, with a carrying capacity of 2,550 tons, and has been built to class 100A1 at Lloyd’s under special survey. She has a topgallant forecastle, a half poop aft fitted up for the accommodation of the captain, officers, and several passengers; and a large iron house amidships containing crew’s quarters, galley, winch house, &c. After the launch the vessel was towed to the crane, where the spars will be put on board, and it is expected that the Archdale will shortly be ready for sea.
Northern Whig, Thursday 25 June 1891.
Regards, Alan.
 
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