Hi! Does anyone know of any illustration of the difference between a dandy and a ketch rigged fishing smack?
Dandy vs ketch rigged smack
Bredo
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My pleasure, Alaric.
Will PM you.
Will PM you.
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Well Stein I only paid £12.00 for my copy on ebay a few years back.
I think you will find it worth the present cost. Attached a preview on dandy rig.
Attachments
Today my copy of "Sailing drifters" arrived, and I can now say that I have read all that Edgar J. March had to say on the subject of "dandy rig." And regrettably it has become obvious there existed no powerful athority deciding upon the sole craft upon which that label could be used. It would seem that a lengthened smack, with a standing lug sheeting to a bumkin added, would be the type one could with the most assurance call a dandy; but at times even ketches built as ketches, and former one-masted vessel with mizzen sails added that were both comparatively large and gaff rigged, were at one time in certain places given the designation "dandy."
The book "Sailing Drifters" btw., is excellent as regards content, but my 1973 edition is only glued - that is not bound - and so, with such a heavy book, one cannot expect the pages to stay attached to the spine for any great length of time.
The book "Sailing Drifters" btw., is excellent as regards content, but my 1973 edition is only glued - that is not bound - and so, with such a heavy book, one cannot expect the pages to stay attached to the spine for any great length of time.
I'm afraid not. Can't be sure from these two photos, but I think these boats are ketches rather than yawls. LT 472 does not have a bumpkin.
Well. More replies than I expected 
Let me end by telling the reason why I asked in the first place. My great grandfather bought the smack Westward Ho in Grimsby in 1895. In the original bill of sale it statet that the type of vessel is "Dandy".
Let me end by telling the reason why I asked in the first place. My great grandfather bought the smack Westward Ho in Grimsby in 1895. In the original bill of sale it statet that the type of vessel is "Dandy".
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The mizzen on a Drascombe Dabber is stepped forward of the rudder-head by not more than two inches. How so? Both are fixed to the transom, with the mizzen-mast inboard and the rudder outboard. On one definition, this would seem to make the Dabber a ketch, which seems absurdly ambitious.
I prefer the additional qualification in the case where the mizzen sail is noticeably small in comparison with the mainsail (as with the Dabber), which makes her a yawl, which seems much more sensible.
As to Rickles two photographs at #26 , I agree with Alaric that it is difficult to be certain whether either one shows a yawl or a ketch.
I prefer the additional qualification in the case where the mizzen sail is noticeably small in comparison with the mainsail (as with the Dabber), which makes her a yawl, which seems much more sensible.
As to Rickles two photographs at #26 , I agree with Alaric that it is difficult to be certain whether either one shows a yawl or a ketch.
A quote from Tom Cunliffe's "Hand, Reef and Steer", 2'nd ed. p. 24: Some nineteenth-century dandy-rigged drifters were technically yawls, because they had left the old mizzen lug where it was after converting the mainmast to gaff. It was stepped a long way aft, and the sail was still sheeted to the outrigger typical on a lugger. This spar, incidentally, was the forerunner of the bumkin almost invariably seen on the modern gaff yawl. A number of Breton fishing types adopted this rig, among them the famous Camaret langoustiers. These were sometimes known as "Dundees." The origin of this name can only be the English "Dandy", since the Scots were among the last to convert their luggers.
Took me awhile to understand the last line here, what he is saying (I believe) is that when the Bretons started using the name "Dundee", then the Dundee fishermen had still not started using the Dandy rig. And so the French "Dundee" would merely be a mis-spelling of the British "Dandy"(?). And it would seem that Cunliffe's "Dandy" is a two-masted vessel, once lug-rigged on both masts, where the main have been converted to a hooped gaff sail (and a bowsprit and a jib added).
Took me awhile to understand the last line here, what he is saying (I believe) is that when the Bretons started using the name "Dundee", then the Dundee fishermen had still not started using the Dandy rig. And so the French "Dundee" would merely be a mis-spelling of the British "Dandy"(?). And it would seem that Cunliffe's "Dandy" is a two-masted vessel, once lug-rigged on both masts, where the main have been converted to a hooped gaff sail (and a bowsprit and a jib added).
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As a matter of etymology, "Dundee" and "Dandy" make a perfect connection!
Thank you, Stein and Tom Cunliffe!
Thank you, Stein and Tom Cunliffe!
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