George,
I joined as 2/M in Antwerp Jan 72 just after you'd left. Can't remember much about the crowd but I do recall having big personal problems at times with the very fussy, pompous Mate. Not a fun ship till he left during lay-up in the Kyles of Bute.
Do you remember who relieved you as 3/M? Any other names that spring to mind? Nigel Packard was Master.

 

I was on one like that, there was always fights down aft of a weekend, either over to much or not enough beer, usually if the crew were from the same pool. old arguements and scores to settle.

The white crew where they all came from different parts of the country always worked better. There was the usual our team is better than your team but mostly banter not batter.

The Southampton crews on the Dart Boats were something else though.
They could really kick off of a weekend at sea. But all appeared on the Monday battered and bruised but happy with it.

Cheap wine in the states was the main cause of it. It would take a brave mate to stop it being brought onboard as well and there were none!

Oh what have I missed!!!!

 

George,
Being Indian crewed certainly had advantages sometimes......
C'mon......lets hear the rest of it, like Barnsey said.

Kind regards,
John.

 

Er George ..... you must have left lots out ???? Pray continue .... fascinating stuff ... never had anything like this on my ships...... sounds a bit like John Cleese trying to keep lots of manuels at bay......

Barnsey

 

Joined the Valour as first trip cadet in November 1967 whilst she was in dry-dock in Birkenhead. Left her in the I.O.G. in mid April '68.
Joined the Courage as first trip U3/O in Dunkirk in September 1969 and left her 6 months later in March'70 at Nynashamn.
Joined the Valour as 3/O in KGV dry-dock in April 1971 and left 7months later in December '71 at RAK.
All were eventful trips in their own way I was about to say they were all good trips and enjoyable but then you stop and remember the arguments with C/O's, the fights in the crew's accommodation and there you and the C/O are in amongst the metal bars and the flying knives armed with a pair of handcuffs trying to sort it out, the Old Man was locked in his cabin not wanting to know. Same port I am out on deck on cargo watch and they have run out of beer in the crew bar and the Chief Steward has got some tucked away in the laundry locker mid-ships, no way am I going to be able to stop them and stay in one piece but I can't make it too easy.
I could probably get a book out of my two trips on the Valour but wouldn't swap it for anything, a good ship to sail and I liked them both for cargo handling never had any problems with the double shut-offs!!!
The second time on the Valour we managed to arrive in the I.O.G. with just enough food on board to give the Super a meal and he would have been wasting his breath asking for a drink unless he got it in the Old Man's or Chief Stewards cabins. I have never seen a ship apparently store so much but have nothing on board. We had even stopped off in Las Palmas to store on the way up from Cape Town, where we had also stored.
I won't even mention the tea reliefs, though sometimes it was to my benefit, or the Old Man enquiring into the colour of your urine.
Cheers George

 

Second Mate during Boilers re tube at Palermo

British Valour had a difficult time prior to being re-tubed at Palermo. I joined her as 2/O at Grain towards the end of May 1968 and finished discharge at Aarhus (where she sank at her moorings) and Copenhagen (where 2 x crew members were held on suspicion of attempted burglary of the gold exchange).
Having signed on another seaman from the Hamburg Pool we left ostensibly for Milazzo to load feedstock for Immingham. En route approx 6 hrs short of Gib we virtually ran out of boiler water necessitating a trip alonside where 250tons were purchased. Within hours of leaving Gib the precious water had all but gone. We made it into Palermo and about a week later into a floating dry dock. Engineroom and deck interpreters were appointed. The deck guy was a character by the name of Pietro Saporito a relict of the early SAS mountain fighters in Greece during 1943. Don McKenzie was Mate, Phil ? 2/E (from the NE), myself Mike Alexander, and Electrician ? and wife from Falmouth were left on board the remaining crew signed off and repatriated. The vessel lay until late September before leaving and resuming trade. There are a wealth of stories surrounding this period re 1. the degaussing cable ,2.contents of medical locker,3. chilled stores 4. bonded stores nothing illegal but hilarious non the less. (Thumb)

 

Hello Roy,
You see, good site! I visited one of these ships and thought that the bottom plates were very crowded. Did they have uprated boiler feed pumps as well, or were there the usual unused and unusable 'harbour' feed pump?
Keith

 

Br Courage

I sailed as 2/E on the Courage in the late 70's. At that time she was running between Gulf ports & Durban. We did attempt a high speed run on oen trip but only for about 16 hours! We did not achieve anything like her design speed on 21/22 knots (I believe she was faster than the Valour on original trials.

We normally steamed with only 4 of the 5 burners in use (Size 26 tips I think) with the electric FD fans. For high speed all 5 burners were fitted (size 36 tips!) using the turbo fd fans and opening up extra nozzles on the HP turbine. Fuel consumption then rose from about 90 tpd to 165 tpd. On our failed attempt to carry out this run the extra nozzle valve was seizes and we sheared the v/v spindle trying to open it! We only managed to raise our steaming speed from our normall 11 knots to about 15 knots! With huge fuel consumption.

Regardlsess of the above she was a good ship - old and falling apart but a good social life!

 

Hi In 1963 as an apprentice engineer, on my second trip which was the courage, which I joined in Drydock (Smiths North Sheilds) Sept-Oct? On the first voyage out light passage to Mina-Al-Ah madhi just passed gib after entering the Med, Engine trials where held and recorded for 24 hours at full rated steaming. The full consumption was horrific (170/180 Tons for the period) all auxilaies operating at full out put. I belive the average speed for the period was some 17 to 18Knots. Quite an experience for an apprentice.

 

For the technically minded, the following details were gleaned from my "Engineer Apprentices' Sea Service Guide"

Main Engine:

Parsons Pametrada cross compounded H.P. impulse, L.P. impulse reaction double flow, double reduction and helical articulared gearing. Made by Wallsend Slipway.

S.H.P. = 14,000/25,000 at 108/130rpm

Boilers:

Two oil fired Babcock and Wilcox Marins selectable superheat rated at 685 psi and 850° F superheat. giving 600psi at the superheater outlet.

Fuel consumption 87 tons/day at 14,000 S.H.P.

She was also fitted with two steam turbine driven forced draught fans, located in the funnel, to provide combustion air when steaming at full power.

I sailed on her in 1960 and we never ran at full power during that time. Sadly my memory fails me now as to what the arrangements there were for running at full power.

Gerry.

 

British Valour and British Courage

Yup you are all nearly right .... cant let you get away with too many Kudos .. that would not be correct!!! (Smoke)

They had an Admiralty subsidy so that they could be used as fleet bulk supply vessels. The "Normal" 33 to 37's Quite a bunch of variations ) had what seemed a standard fit of 15,500 shp turbines but, these particular two had 25,000 shp turbines and it seems the Boilers were suitably endorsed to supply the ergs for that extra grunt they had. I always had it in my mind they had a third boiler but that really wouldn't make a lot of sense I suppose? Our resident Engineer's will no doubt comment on that aspect???

Lovely era of designs ....powerfull and purposefull. (K)

Barnsey

 

Yup you are all nearly right .... cant let you get away with too many Kudos .. that would not be correct!!! (Smoke)

They had an Admiralty subsidy so that they could be used as fleet bulk supply vessels. The "Normal" 33 to 37's Quite a bunch of variations ) had what seemed a standard fit of 15,500 shp turbines but, these particular two had 25,000 shp turbines and it seems the Boilers were suitably endorsed to supply the ergs for that extra grunt they had. I always had it in my mind they had a third boiler but that really wouldn't make a lot of sense I suppose? Our resident Engineer's will no doubt comment on that aspect???

Lovely era of designs ....powerfull and purposefull. (K)

Barnsey

I am pretty sure there were others like that. I think the Cavalier was one. I sailed on her as 2nd trip D/C and was told that she was also built to serve the RN if needed. We carried degaussing gear and a crate full of antiquated 'war-time' special items, including lead-weighted bags for the convoy zig-zag code books.

Interestingly the entries for these ships in Harvey and Solly make no mention of the Admiralty connection.
nina

 

A 3/E I sailed with whilst a cadet (John Bryson - smashing chap) had spent some time on these - aparrently the Admiralty nozzles admitted full pressure superheated steam into the third stage of the ahead turbine, rather than increasing the admission area of the sirts stage as was Stal practise. This would give a good kick - mind the blades must have been of fancy steel.

Duncan

 

I always thought they 'were' something special. I always fancied a trip on them but never made it.I'm sure I have an email from someone sailing on one in their latter years when all and sundry prayed when they were opened up.

Anyone any idea what the boilers were? Stupid question as I look up my LLoyds,both 685 psi @ 850 Superheat
Would be interested to know if anyone has anymore details on their 'special' specs

Graham

 

AS you well know, or should from the records you have from me, I joined the Valour as first trip E/A in September 1958 in time for her sea trials.
Which she failed.
Nothing to do with me, I was just the slave taking telegraph instructions. All I remember the hoi poloi talking about was the horrendous fuel consumption.
So I got sent home after I'd just had a major send off from all my family, girl friends and the whole street.
Twenty four hours later I was off to the Isle of Grain to join the Courage.
The old man was RNVR, Funge-Smith and as time was to prove it, he was the finest skipper with which I ever sailed. A proper Master of the old school; smart as a new pin, wise and considerate at all times.
On the other hand, the C/Eng w§as a horny old bastard called Burgess. Well known in the fleet as a hard taskmaster and he lived up to to.
A) He didn't like Engineer Apprentices.
B) He hardly slept and if he was up, I was up.
C) He never bothered with writing up a fair log. Three days before dry dock I had to write out the last 3 months log in a fair hand and, if there was ONE mistake he would throw it over the side and make me start again. I only had to do it twice!
D) He hated ALL deck officers and refused to let his apprentices to talk to any Deck Apprentice. I fought him on that one so I was transferred to days and had to accompany him 24/7 in whatever he was up to.
I've worked for two of his kind in my life and I can honestly say that I came to terms with both of them and they taught me so much and I will be eternally in their debt.
The Mate was George Dowson and he was a different sort of b******d.
I was not allowed to approach the bridge through the chartroom even with clean shoes, thanks to him.
He put the fear of God into the deck apprentices that one of them stuck his head over the ullage port of a tank under loading at 10,000 tons an hour until he passed out. He was carted off and then carted back to spend two days in the ship's hospital.
Dowson was worried man.
I see someone below has given the answer to your question but I have just unearthed my Engineer Apprentices Note Book for that time so I can give anyone bell book and candle if they want it.

PS. I see from that book that the next skipper was Capt J. Digby and, from my letters home I said he went missing one night in the Arabian sea.
Many Officers, including Burgess had, what we now call Post Traumatic Stress Disorders. Burgess unburdened himself to me one night sitting on the poop deck with a cuppa tea. I knew I'd met his standards then.

 

Barnsey,
I think Paul has said it all. There is a thread (or two) on the Valour & the Courage somewhere on this site but not too sure where.......
Kind regards,
John.

 

Barnsey,

I took the Valour as 2M to layup in the Kyles of Bute in April 72. She was built to government (RFA) standards and had a top speed, according to the 2E who had experienced test runs, of 21 kts. Apparently she was capable of outrunning P&O liners, something he had also witnessed when leaving Suez homeward-bound. Because she was fairly knackered by the time I joined her in Antwerp, we never opened her up as required (once a month?). Had a great time partying both on board as well as ashore in Rothesay with a skeleton crew. Pictures of her in my gallery. Apart from the layup not altogether a close-knit ship.
Master Nigel Packard.
P.S. the Top Ten hit at the time was Elton John's 'Rocket Man'....grab that!