No, Glojoh. I'm an Ex clanky and would have been mortified to have driven the capstan with the cable and scots man in that condition.

 

I think we have all served on ships that have been open to the public and I just cannot, cannot get my head around how anyone would allow that deck to get in such a condition, it is completely outside of my experience.

As a terrified 16yr old I had to take part in painting the funnel of an aircraft carrier whilst in dry dock. Sat in as bosun's chair, no life-line\safety harness or helmet, on a freezing cold day with a HUGE drop to the base of the dry dock and all because the paint 'looked' slightly weathered!

This is Cavalier an old destroyer but typical of ANY Royal Navy ship during the 1960's/70's.. WHAT HAS CHANGED?? (I never served on Cavalier and it is simply the first image I found showing a similar part of ship..

 

How could ANY commanding officer, first lieutenant, buffer or captain of the forecastle stand for this?

Fully agree, Glojoh, but unfortunately, I fear that in a RIVER Class patrol ship, this killick is almost certainly the captain of the FX, or possibly even the buffer ....(EEK)

Jack

 

Not only the rust need getting rid of,the man needs to loose some weight.
What happened to "SHIP SHAPE AND BRISTOL FASHION"

 

I do not know, but maybe they are on some sort of contract maintenance deal and are not allowed to do everyday ships husbandry?

Whatever, lack of money, lack of manpower, lack of interest and lack of leadership seems to lead to lack of pride in your ship.

McC

 

It also Leads to low morale,and then you become ineffective.

 

I suspect there are many aspects of the modern R.N. which would not meet with your approval, chaps.

When i was instructing at "Collingrad" in the mid 90's the "old school" lads were leaving in their droves....................the rot seemed to start then.

 

According to John Winton's character The Artful Bodger in We Joined the Navy, senior officers in the RN always said that "the Navy was going to the dogs" and the moment they stopped saying this was when you had to worry.

Sadly, there seem to be very few people complaining about the Navy going to the dogs these days so maybe it is true and it is now too late to worry anyway.

McC

 

She's a River Class OPV, complement of 30, originally leased from VT now (Sept 2012) bought outright.

Has it occured to anyone that the ship pictured had just got back from a long patrol on Fishery Protection? Judging by the angry sky probably in heavy weather -it always seemed like permanent Harry Roughers when I was in the FPS. Upper deck out of bounds for most of it?

I'm not making excuses and that Killick has clearly eaten all the pies but HM ships are lean (no pun intended) manned in two watches and you are either on watch or asleep. The days of four watches with, lets face it , a lot of time to chip and paint are over. That kind of work happens in maintenance periods by contractors.

 

Thats very true,they don't fix them they just sail them. Its called scheduled maintenance and the contractor gets a big bite of the apple.

 

I suggested that!

McC

 

How come he has a boomers badge? Thought they were an extinct species.

 

He's a Seaman Specialist

 

I'm not making excuses and that Killick has clearly eaten all the pies but HM ships are lean (no pun intended) manned in two watches and you are either on watch or asleep. The days of four watches with, lets face it , a lot of time to chip and paint are over. That kind of work happens in maintenance periods by contractors.

In that case, no wonder our killick friend is smiling!(*))

Jack

 

One thing is evident - she's a good feeder.

 

The first few weeks at RALIEGH ,[1966] i wore a "boom defence "badge , for being a bog standard od. seaman.
I am afraid i would feel ashamed to be photoed among all that rust.but i must be classed as a "old fart"

yorky jim

 

It's interesting to see the comparison made between HMS Cavalier and the River class OPV in the original photo, both ships have roughly the same tonnage, although a River class is 20 metres shorter than Cavalier.

Let's have a look at the manning of both ships:

HMS Cavalier - 186 men

River Class - 30 men

The River class ships are designed to spend approximately 300 days at sea per year - I'd be absolutely amazed if Cavalier managed even half that.
Are we still wondering why one isn't as immaculate as the other?

 

You make a valid point but I'm afraid it is not a valid one, nor in my opinion an acceptable one. Don't forget that both paint and materials today are far, far more endurable than they were in yesteryear.

I have a very vivid imagination but even after a few tots of rum I cannot even begin to imagine what a First Lieutenant would have said if that fo'csle was just one tenth as bad as that example. That ship is on a Goodwill Visit' to her adopted port and will be open to the public. That sailor is posing for a photograph which is going to be published in regional, if not National newspapers and to me that rust speaks volumes regarding self respect, pride and even discipline. yes I am an old fogey and yes I served on a C&A class destroyer along with the backbone of the Navy... The Leander class frigate but I have NEVER, never seen anything like that.

When the Torrey Canyon ran aground I was serving on a C&A class destroyer that was tasked as being Guardship' for that incident. Each day we would sail out of Falmouth with a fresh stock of detergent to spray the crude oil in an attempt to break it up. This detergent failed miserably to do that but it was a great paint stripper!! The paint around our stern falling victim to this paint remover and the Western Approaches did their worse to make our ship look like a rust bucket... Bottom line was that immediately after we deployed away from the area and before entering harbour, I believe that rust was treated and 'Captain TC' was once more the battleship grey, pocket rocket she always was!

Bottom line must surely be that any Royal Naval ship that is open to the public, is a window into the Royal Navy and that forecastle is NOT the best advert I have seen.

 

That ship is liable to fall apart if anyone were to use a chipping hammer to remove all that rust.

There are 2 plates to stop his and the photographers feet disappearing down the hawse pipes: I was told they are 'jackass plates'.

Confirm or deny... or is this an Americanism?

 

If I remember from my day working anchors and cables on the fo'csle's of HM ships we called them "Bonnets". I have never seen a Pussers cable deck in such a bad state even after 28 days on North Atlantic Fishery patrol on a Type 14

 

These are not bonnets but hawse pipe gratings. Bonnets cover the navel pipe. Looking in my Manual of Seamanship Vol II 1951 edition, p.383 for the definition, "The bonnets for covering navel pipes are portable, except when a compressor is incorporated in them. They are provided with sliding shutters which fit over a link of the cable, and when secured for sea the bonnets are caulked with oakum to make them watertight." The illustration is on p.382. Poor cosmetic paintwork, but hardly life threatening.
Gil.

 

Cheers Gil. You've straightened that out. I've put 2 photos up to show the 'Bonnet' and the 'Sliding Shutter'.

Looking at the Bonnet, you can see why it was so named.

Re: 'Jackass plates'. I can't even remember where I heard/read that? but the name probably arrives from the percieved low inteligence of people who've put their foot in there.

Anyway, I'm happy to know proper Pussers nomenclature.

 

Listen lads, unless I missed something , there is nothing to indicate that this picture was taken when she was open to the public and could have been taken after a hard tour of anywhere. Or not.

 

Hi jg,
You are indeed missing something.

The ship was on a goodwill visit to the town it is affiliated with as per the link.

That aside there are hard tours and hard tours. If she had been in something like the Falklands Conflict then its appearance would be excusable but the ship would go to in for some TLC before going into a 'civvy' port for a run ashore.

WE were used up North for one of the Cod Wars and the weather conditions played havoc with the appearance of our ship but it NEVER, NEVER, ever looked as bad as that fo'csle.

Are you telling me you served on ANY Grey Funnel line ship that looked like that?

 

The answer to your question, glojoh, is no, but then I never served in a ship that had a 320 day at sea capability. Three watch crew system; twelve day patrols with average of three boarding inspections per day; two day stand off with watch change; two maintenance periods per year, nine and fourteen days.
Gil.

 

The answer to your question, glojoh, is no.

I have only kept that part because that is the part that is relevant.

That ship was on a goodwill visit, showing the flag and most important... it was representing the Royal Navy. This was a goodwill visit to the town that had adopted her and just like lots of other ex Royal navy personnel er have worked extended periods for weeks\months on end but before we enter port we make sure the ship is to quote a well known nautical saying, 'Ship shape and Bristol fashion'

I live in the real World and when our ships returned from the Falklands they carried their streaks of rust with pride, the ships were bruised, battered and were definitively NOT shining like any type of pin let alone a new one, but I smile when some folks are making excuses about being 'over worked' and extended periods at sea. This ship was on a scheduled, planned Goodwill Visit to her affiliated town. This means the local mayor and other Civic dignitaries will be invited aboard the ship, sailors would be invited ashore to attend organised functions, sports events etc.

 

Keep harping on about the past, glojoh, in no way addresses the problems of today. The answer to the cosmetic condition of this vessel is tighter control of her maintenance periods and perhaps contracting her painting to firms that have long experience in painting similarly tasked vessels - at the fishing.
Gil.

 

hello glojo and others on this post. So I did miss something, that's OK. I still suspect that the fella who had his picture taken was trying to impress someone back home, look at me on this weather beaten ship, geez we had it tough. Either way , no worries mate, Ronnie three trips on the Iceland run on Wave tankers looking after the RN

 

Hi jg,
We may well have been up in Icelandic waters at the same time

Gil Mayes
I hear what you are saying and I totally agree that times have changed and we MUST move on but...

There are moving parts underneath that rust and those parts should be well greased to ensure ease of use.

I keep reading how the quality of paints have improved in huge steps and are far more durable than they were in yesteryear.

jg made an excellent point when he talked about that time period when we were at odds with the Icelandic government. I had the misfortune of 'Proceeding with full despatch' from Portland to those waters, just briefly stopping off at Roysth to pick up vital protective clothing. We were working defence watches for the duration and as jg will no doubt confirm, it was sod's law that the weather conditions were usually atrocious. Our ship took a hammering but..... and I will keep saying this

It would NEVER, ever look like that when we entered harbour.

The ship we are discussing was NOT paying a surprise visit

Did not have very little notice before entering that port

The visit was a planned visit

The visit was to her adopted town.

It was a formal visit where the ship was ALWAYS GOING TO BE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC

Itwas a visit where local dignatries would be invited onboard, wined, dined and shown around the ship

It was a visit where anyone that has thoughts about joining the Senior Service could go aboard that vessel during her stay when she was open to the public.

These visits are usually great fun and Jolly Jack Tar is well looked after... Happy days and fond memories.

Incidentally,
To all those that are trying to defend what I consider as indefensible, I have looked at quite literally dozens of images of this class of warship to try and find images that would corroborate the claims that they are over worked and have no time for the most basic of ship's maintenance. I cannot find a similar shot or image.

Goodwill visit to Dublin

 

Methinks that you protest too much, glojoh. The crewing, tasking and work pattern of these ships which you so flippantly dismiss, is an established and contributing factor and does not allow ship husbandry to be undertaken as you used to know it. To understand the role of the RN manned FPS I suggest that you get hold of a copy of last week's -5 Oct 2012, edition of 'Fishing News' and see how they operate - today.
Gil.

 

I think we have both had a good say regarding this issue and we will just have to agree to disagree (Applause)

 

Sensible compromise, a good debate all told.
Gil.

 

Glojoh. I remember sailing out of Portland at 0400 to start the mop up duties from the Torrey Canyon. It t'were the Carysfort.

 

Hi again glojo #32, You're right about the weather that's for sure, Going into Scapa with a folowing sea was the scariest I've ever been in. Did one Iceland run in the summer and it was like glass all the way. We could here the growlers rubbing against each other. My hat off to the trawlermen you were protecting. These lads had it tough and I have immense admiration for them. Hope I'm not too far off topic. Regards.