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This is most important, as is Chamberlain's oft derided Munich Agreement - this delayed the start of WW2, giving us an extra year to prepare, had we not had that time the outcome of The Battle of Britain would almost certainly have been different, Operation Sealion could haf proceeded with a fair chance of success and the world we inhabit today could be very different.
The other argument is that Germany wasn't ready for war, indeed, was a lot less well prepared than we and especially the French were, and the Czech army was both well trained, well armed (with the best tanks in the world at that time, the Skoda) and ready. The outcome may well have been a humiliating German defeat and the fall of Hitler.
 
Armadas

Hi Derek.

I know a Spanish chap who lives near me,
and their account is different from ours.
Their history shows that the Armada was
beaten by really bad weather and a lot of
this fleet ended up aground in Holland and
many more were lost on the Scottish and
Irish coasts.By the way,Drake was supposedly
playing Bowls when the Armada approached,
Was Bowls around at this time or was he playing
BOULES,the French / Spanish game.Something to
think about.
Dave Williams
 
********

"****" is supposed to come from "No spicka da Ingles", no worse than "******" - supposed to be from the Texan soldiers singing "Green go the rushes o". Wonder if your nephew would get away with "*******".

John T
Hi There.
I was led to believe that "********" refered to Mexicans
who crossed into the USA by swimming the Rio Grande.
Dave Williams
 
As I understand it the difference between the Spanish and English ships was that the former were glorified armed troopships, designed to carry troops into battle and commanded by soldiers. The english ships were specifically adapted for sea warfare and were commanded by seamen. That, I imagine, would have been a fundamental advantage in a fleet engagement.

Anyway, I read somewhere that afterwards Spain started to build ships with glass bottoms, so that the new Spanish navy could look at the old one.(Jester)
 
Anyway, I read somewhere that afterwards Spain started to build ships with glass bottoms, so that the new Spanish navy could look at the old one.(Jester)
Nope... that's the new Argentine navy........

and just a little bit further off topic....I believe the RAN is having a few probs with that new ship they bought from Spain...
 
As I understand it the difference between the Spanish and English ships was that the former were glorified armed troopships, designed to carry troops into battle and commanded by soldiers. The english ships were specifically adapted for sea warfare and were commanded by seamen. That, I imagine, would have been a fundamental advantage in a fleet engagement.
True to a certain extent, in that the unweatherly be heavily manned Spanish ships couldn't catch the English ones, but the English ships were too small and without sufficient men or guns to damage the Spanish ones, so neither could destroy the other, until the weather made it's contribution.
 
Open warfare between Spain and England was precipitated by the execution of Mary Queen of Scots in 1587. In the same year Drake’s raid on Cadiz prevented an immediate Spanish attack on England.

After numerous delays the Spanish Amada entered the English Channel at the end of July 1588 under the command of the Duke of Medina Sidonia, with 130 ships, of which 102 were galleons, including 57 that were over 500 tons. The remaining ships were galleys and transports. They were carrying 30,000 men, of whom two thirds were soldiers. The Spanish ships were equipped with a large number of small calibre cannon, relying upon their strength in boarding and regarding artillery as a secondary weapon.

The English fleet under Lord Howard; supported by Drake, Hawkins and Frobisher had 193 ships of which only 13 were over 500 tons. They had crews totalling 15,000 men, of whom one third were soldiers. All of the English ships were fitted with heavy calibre broadside guns.

The Spanish approached in a crescent formation, enabling the English to take advantage of the superior sailing properties of their ships and their heavier artillery to cause considerable damage, whilst avoiding close combat. The Spanish were unable to attack the English and were obliged to continue up the Channel, losing stragglers as they went, until they anchored off Calais on 6th August.

In my view the deciding factor of the action was the English attack by fire ships during the night of 7/8th August, which caused the Spanish to cut their cables and to attempt to escape through the coastal shallows where several ran aground. The following morning the demoralised Spanish Armada was scattered about Gavelines and an energetic attack by Drake drove them onto the Flanders coast where they suffered further losses from grounding and shore-based artillery.

By this stage the Spanish had lost 20 ships and about 5,000 men, with many of the remaining ships being severely mauled. They escaped into the North Sea, but were unwilling to face the English ships in the Channel and the Dutch harbours were in hostile hands. The wind turned from the south and Medina Sidonia decided to return to Spain by sailing around the British Isles, losing a further 45 vessels and 15,000 men as his damaged ships suc***bed to storms.

It was the first sea battle to be decided by artillery alone and it brought an end to Spanish naval dominance. Naval wars with Spain continued in partnership with the Dutch until the death of Elizabeth. In 1604 James I made peace with Spain, leaving the Dutch to continue the destruction of Spanish naval power until its total eclipse by Van Tromp in the Battle of the Downs on 21 October 1639.
 
WHO WERE THE BLACK IRISH?

"...Another theory of the origin of the term 'Black Irish' is that these people were descendants of Spanish traders who settled in Ireland and even descendants of the few Spanish sailors who were washed up on the west coast of Ireland after the disaster that was the 'Spanish Armada' of 1588. It is claimed that the Spanish married into Irish society and created a new class of Irish who were immediately recognisable by their dark hair and complexion. There is little evidence to support this theory and it is unlikely that any significant number of Spanish soldiers would have survived long in the war-torn place that was sixteenth century Ireland. It is striking though how this tale is very similar to the ancient Irish legend of the Milesians who settled in Ireland having travelled from Spain."
 
WHO WERE THE BLACK IRISH?

"...Another theory of the origin of the term 'Black Irish' is that these people were descendants of Spanish traders who settled in Ireland and even descendants of the few Spanish sailors who were washed up on the west coast of Ireland after the disaster that was the 'Spanish Armada' of 1588. It is claimed that the Spanish married into Irish society and created a new class of Irish who were immediately recognisable by their dark hair and complexion. There is little evidence to support this theory and it is unlikely that any significant number of Spanish soldiers would have survived long in the war-torn place that was sixteenth century Ireland. It is striking though how this tale is very similar to the ancient Irish legend of the Milesians who settled in Ireland having travelled from Spain."
Nothing to do with the Spanish merchants who had been settled in cities like Galway since its inception?
 
Discussion starter · #51 ·
There are many dark complexioned Scots in the Western Isles where some wrecks occurred . A particular friend of mine claimed he was descended from a Spanish sailor who was wrecked there .
The Scots would have been happy to shelter the sailors from the English after Mary Queen of Scots was beheaded ; an act which precipitated a lot of the animosity between Spain and England .
 
The original inhabitants of the Highlands and Islands were dark haired with relatively dark complexions, as were the original inhabitants of Ireland, so it isn't really necessary to invent romantic stories to explain such people. It may be true, of course, but people do tend to prefer romantic legends to boring truth.
 
The original inhabitants of the Highlands and Islands were dark haired with relatively dark complexions, as were the original inhabitants of Ireland, so it isn't really necessary to invent romantic stories to explain such people. It may be true, of course, but people do tend to prefer romantic legends to boring truth.
.... like Rob Roy, William Wallace and Greyfriars Gibson.

John T
 
Discussion starter · #54 ·
The original inhabitants of the Highlands and Islands were dark haired with relatively dark complexions, as were the original inhabitants of Ireland, so it isn't really necessary to invent romantic stories to explain such people. It may be true, of course, but people do tend to prefer romantic legends to boring truth.
The Mac Rae clan was dark hair and dark skinned ; most of the others not .
However in some of the Western Isles there are a lot of people with Spanish features ; mostly quite handsome and good looking who do not fit into the usual looks of the Clans ; hence my observation .
 
"I escaped from the sea and from these enemies by having commended myself very earnestly to our Lord, and to the Most Holy Virgin, His Mother; and with me three hundred and odd soldiers, who also knew how to save themselves and to swim to shore. With them I experienced great misfortunes: naked and shoeless all the winter: passing more than seven months among mountains and woods with savages, which they all are in those parts of Ireland where we were shipwrecked."
Captain Cuellar's Adventures in Connacht and Ulster
 
"I escaped from the sea and from these enemies by having commended myself very earnestly to our Lord, and to the Most Holy Virgin, His Mother; and with me three hundred and odd soldiers, who also knew how to save themselves and to swim to shore. With them I experienced great misfortunes: naked and shoeless all the winter: passing more than seven months among mountains and woods with savages, which they all are in those parts of Ireland where we were shipwrecked."
Captain Cuellar's Adventures in Connacht and Ulster
Pretty difficult to pass yourself off as a local with your knob hanging out. If Francisco didn't like it back then, he would have hated it down the Shankill Road in the '70s.

John T
 
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