HMS JAGUAR

CEYLON220 · Oct 29, 2019

Why is she still flying the Union flag at sea--is it a ceremonial occasion ?

Steve Oatey · Oct 30, 2019

Interesting that you have called it the Union Flag (which I would otherwise heartily agree with) when these are the exact cir***stances when it is a Union Jack.

Rgds, Steve

CEYLON220 · Nov 1, 2019

Steve, I was always taught that the flag we come under is the" Union Flag", the pole that it is attached to is the "Jack", I`ve taught my son ,my Grandchildren ,and now my Great Grandchildren the same, even one of my Grand children pulled up her teacher when she referred to the flag as the Union Jack, teacher said that she was right.

John Rogers · Nov 1, 2019

The national flag of the United Kingdom is the Union Jack, also known as the Union Flag. The current design of the Union Jack dates from the union of Ireland and Great Britain in 1801.

Mad Landsman · Nov 1, 2019

I am sorry to have to disagree but the origins of the 'Jack' are from the term 'National jack flag'. The word jack is an archaic diminutive meaning that it was smaller than the main flag. Over time it became known as the jack flag and then just 'Jack' or even 'Naval Jack' as we now know it. It was worn to show that the vessel was the King's ship and was displayed at the foremost part of the ship on a special staff which was known as the jack staff and later also just called 'the jack'.
It was only worn when the sails were lowered for purely practical reasons, fouling the jib etc, but with powered vessels that has transformed into etiquette.

Other Nations also have a National Jack flag or Naval Jack. The USA also call theirs the Union Jack.

I cannot find a source but I seem to recall that the Jack may be flown with the Ensign while under way if a vessel is 'conducting the monarch's business', such as a Queens Harbour Master. Probably not the case here.

Steve Oatey · Nov 2, 2019

When the Union flag was flown from the masthead of the Britannia, for example, it was referred to as "Union at the main" or similar. When the Union flag is flown from the jackstaff of one of H.M. ships, it becomes a Union jack, because it was already the Union and now it's a jack as well.

FG86 · Nov 2, 2019

There is something at the back of my mind that during the 90's there was a legal change to the name of the Union flag, in so much that it is now accepted that it can be called Union jack. I will try to find the relevant report etc...

John Rogers · Nov 2, 2019

I am getting long in the teeth, almost 88 years young, all my life from a kid I have always known the flag as the Union Jack. But like FG86 said there may have been a change. I will also search for the change. Looks like we have a good thread started.

John Rogers · Nov 2, 2019

I found this.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/flag-of-the-United-Kingdom

CEYLON220 · Nov 3, 2019

Roger, like you I am also in my 80s and from my school days many moons ago I have lived knowing that the flag of my country was known as the Union Flag, they can change as many laws as they like it will not change my way of thinking ---the flag is the Union Flag which is flown from a pole called a Jack --- the only time that I ever saw a naval ship flying the flag from the bows of a ship at sea was on ceremony duties or in harbour -(Thumb)and also flying from the yardarm on exercises etc-- pleased to see that we all don`t agree on the subject.

HMS JAGUAR

CEYLON220

Steve Oatey

CEYLON220

John Rogers

Mad Landsman

Steve Oatey

FG86

John Rogers

John Rogers

CEYLON220

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